My players are the bad guys

Give in to the dark side. If your players are successful in being villains, I think you should let them (especially when the whole group is doing it). If they are capable of invoking such strong emotions from you, they must be doing something right.

Keep challenging them with very real threats of double crossing, betrayals, assassinations, turf wars, long arms of the law and whatever you fancy. Make your PCs live hard and fast. That's what they want, right?

This is good advice, and I've already been doing this. There are no safe ports for them anymore.

Part of what I'm trying to work through is why I'm so upset about this. I knew all along that one of my players wanted revenge against his father. I knew it was going to be climax of the campaign. We are coming up to that climax now, but I am not liking how it is unfolding.

At one point, he wanted to roll a Deception against his father. I didn't have a stat block ready, as they pushed the story faster than I intended. This Jawa's player has min-maxed and optimized his character for Deception. I fully intended, from the beginning, to optimize his father in Discipline (the opposed skill to Deception in EotE), but like I said, I didn't have a stat block ready.

So I had him roll the opposite dice to his Deception check. He and the other players got all mad at me. I said I fully intended all along to actively oppose him in this space of taking revenge. They argued it was "better for the story" for the deception to work. I said I absolutely disagreed. 

I think this is the clash that's happening. I've allowed them a lot of freedom in directing the story. Now they are chafing every time I put significant resistance in their path. And here, I think, may be why I'm getting angry: They've gotten away with so much, and they are well stocked with XP (the EotE equivalent of perhaps D&D level 12-15). I'm making sure the challenges match that level, and they're getting mad at me that everything isn't still as easy as it was when they first started. They've also managed to avoid directly facing the powerful enemies I've created to fight them. The ones with grudges against them.

It feels like privilege at work. They've gotten away with so much, and directed so many aspects of the narrative, that they now chafe at any resistance on my end. This pisses me off and makes me want to resist more. I wanna crush them. My "Dammit, I'm the GM; I'm freakin' GOD!" module is kicking into overdrive. I don't want to approach the game with that attitude. It's not a good head space for a GM.

I've got two goals for my next few sessions: Make the Jawa's father an emotionally triggering figure (someone the players themselves are reluctant to betray) and force their hand in facing the lovely Inquisitor I rolled up for them. I think we will be finishing out this game in a couple sessions. Its time I took back some control of the narrative.

As it is, we're only getting your side of the story. Yeah, they kinda sound like they're being babies about facing significant challenges. But what if the pressure is getting to them? What if their evasion of powerful enemies has been just a little breather in what they feel is an endurance race against the galaxy? You say they've managed to get away with a lot, but do they feel like they narrowly succeeded, or are they smug (the players, not the PCs) about it?

I'm curious how they'd react if you gave them exactly what they want, and how long it would take before they get bored, if ever. Might be interesting to do super-easy mode for awhile.

Alternatively, and as more moderate solution, noticeable peaks and valleys in difficulty might be a better approach than the linear scaling you currently use.

Lots of mights and maybes, but then, this is a complex problem and you're the only one here with a relatively complete picture of the situation.

Is it possible to use this to your advantage? Would you be able to step back, re access, and see this as an opportunity instead? Without knowing the player's dynamics it's hard to know, but I'll expand a bit and then you would be able to tell..

These groups they are pissing off are some of the strongest in the galaxy. They didn't into those positions without being incredibly crafty and clever (for most of them). The Hutts? Think about every scam you've seen on The Sopranos and amplify that - the Hutts are bad news. I think in games we often portray these characters in a lesser role so as to create drama in level appropriate scenarios.

I think in this situation it is fair to up that game. The players have continued to perform acts that have consequences. It's time to show them. Up your crafty level for the appropriate villians (not everyone - you should still be impartial as the GM - just the ones that would be more clever than you or I could imagine). Then have them start setting hooks. The Hutts don't just send bounty hunters, maybe they start playing larger, more crafty, games. They try to get their hooks into the players. Take someone or something they do care about, frame them for something that pisses another large group that will hound them, or have an outside bounty hunter party show up and disrupt their plans repeatedly. Perhaps they are able to escape the first couple of times easily, but they just keep showing up and don't let them rest. And finally, have one of their actions have major consequences for the universe and appeal to their humanity. Someone they've dicked over gets tortured in a horrible manner and killed - or an entire city gets wiped out as a result of something they've done. I don't know the details, but I say just really up the stakes.

If you can do this, and do this in a way that isn't just "payback" for you, you could slowly change the game into a darker and gritter game in which the characters have to examine their motivations and really decide if they are willing to go all the way dark. If so, then run with that and keep upping the stakes of their loss of humanity, but again not necessarily as a punishment. Let them explore the slide. If they aren't, then you get to run a campaign of redemption.

I think there is opportunity here unless they are just playing hack and slash chaotic neutral type of characters. If they are at all trying to role-play, I think you can run with it and find a way to also get your enjoyment in the game. It just might take some reflection to figure out how.

EDIT:  I guess what I'm saying is they are pissing off groups that have nearly unlimited resources - I think it's fair, and not a dick move as a GM, to have those groups fully utilize all of those resources and run scams the players can barely even follow and have the players get caught up in events.  

Thanks for the great feedback everyone. I'll respond to quoted bits below.

@nevvur:


As to "easy mode" and "peaks and valleys of diificulty": There is plenty of variation in difficulty. The issue here is primarily with one player, the one who has maximized Deception. He rolls 4 yellow and a green for Deception (a rough translation to D&D terms: this would be like having a +10 or more modifier for a skill). His character is really good at deception. But, he chooses to use it in absurd situations, then uses multiple other abilities to further upgrade his dice and overwhelm the check with positive dice.

For example, in one of his most recent exploits, they were entering a planet where they are known: Tatooine. This player flipped a light side point to be able to add a rock star figure to the world. He made this figure human, but said he got his legs chopped off above the knee. This PC is a Jawa. The player then decided to make a deception check to impersonate this rock star. As I, the GM, was thinking about this, I realized this had to be a difficult check. He is trying to impersonate another race, a famous figure, who has only half his legs, on a planet where the PC is known. So I made the check very difficult. So he upgraded more dice. We got into an upgrade war; as he upgraded to try and make this difficult check easy, I upgraded to maintain the difficulty, because it needed to be difficult. No matter how good you are at lying, makeup, and impersonations, impersonating a rock star of another species on a planet where people know you has got to be difficult!

This is the incident that incited a conversation between this player and I in which he complained that I always tried to make his deception checks too hard. My response was that, while I encourage the ridiculous nature of his deceptions because they're fun and funny, sometimes they are going to be difficult no matter what. I then reminded him that we are playing a game, and what's the point of playing a game at all if there's no challenge to the game? Another wrinkle here is that this player is one of the most vocal at the table, and he has built a one-trick pony character. If a fight breaks out, there's not much his character can do. So he speaks up fast and uses Deception to avoid conflicts. Fine and dandy, but eventually, as the GM, I'm gonna throw you into a scenario that breaks your one trick. The other side of the min/max coin; GMs can do it too.

For the record, he succeeded that check. With a Triumph (the EotE equivalent of a crit). And it was great and funny and flavored that arc of sessions. 

And, also for the record, this player is very, very smug about his successes. As a player, he has three goals at the table: loot, messing with other people (in and out of game), and winning. This is changing over time, and he has also become one of my best in character role players, but those motives still shine through pretty often.

ino:


They aren't trying to be evil. Their actions are just more sociopathic. Like when you play Skyrim. Killing innocent or even friendly people has zero consequences and often gives you loot and ups your abilities. For me, the final straw in my frustration was them not only declining to assist these Jedi they encountered, but them manipulating children onto their ship with the express purpose of robbing them. That's getting into an evil realm for me, and it sparks my hero module. I want to fight them now. I want them to lose. That is not how I approach GMing and I'm working through that. I'm choosing specific points I want to resist them on. Their whole goal here was to get light sabers. If they had made nice with the Jedi, helped them out, the Jedi would have taught them how to build them. Instead, they kidnap some children with the intent to rob them. Now I am going to resist them on this point, where I would have cooperated.

As to powerful enemies; they already have an Inquisitor and Boba Fett on their trail. They have yet to openly face these enemies, they've avoided them. They won't be able to for much longer.

Vulash: I'm not quoting yours, but it was great feedback! If we were going to be running this campaign for a while yet, I would totally use your advice. However, I am trying to wrap this campaign in the next couple of sessions, so a complex plot against them may not work. I'll have to think on it.

Again, thanks so much for your feedback everyone! Its helped me parse through my reactions and get my feet on the ground.

Like I mentioned earlier: Sociopaths. The Jawa player I keep mentioning, I realized the other night that he's said, "F&%k that guy!" about every single NPC the players have ever met. Not figuratively either. He's literally said that sentence about all of them, across campaigns and systems.

They don't care about anything. This is part of my frustration. Although...now that I'm thinking about it...they really, really like their ship. Hmm...it needs a lot of repairs right now...

The one thing they are all excited about is getting light sabers. So, I'm going to fight them tooth and nail on that front. I don't know what else to do at this point.

Sounds like it's about time to have the ship blow up and the crystals zip out into space if you ask me, haha. Having heard enough of your games Firar I can say with some confidence that it is the video game mentality creeping in and running amok. Although, the theft of children is a crazy line that they have crossed. I don't think that they intend direct harm, but definitely the blatant exploitation of the younglings will bring about some serious consequences. Given that they played D&D I would call back to those times, and note about how they didn't sit there and fight level 1 monsters the whole time just like they didn't in Skyrim a game that quite literally levels up the world as you level up, freakin unkillable mountain lions in Oblivion bane of my high level existence in that game! haha. If they just sit in the beginning zone the whole time killing boars maybe they will get the sword of 1,000 truths, or in reality they will get really really bored and stop leveling themselves up. Hope that this resolves well and there is a different precedent set for the next game!