Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2016 1:56:23 GMT
Sounds like you've got your mind wrapped around this one, but I'd like to add a final thought.
Dice rolls are only meant to be used when there's uncertainty about the outcome of an attempted action. Many courses of action can automatically fail or succeed without invoking a roll (e.g. walking across a room, or leaping across a 100 foot chasm). Even social skills have precedent for autofails (in official D&D publications, don't know about EotE). For instance, Persuasion attempts might always fail, while Intimidate has a very low DC, reflecting a certain temperament of the NPC.
The deus ex machina mechanic in EotE means it's easier for players to turn the impossible into the possible, but you are within your rights to say no. In this particular case, I'd be inclined to autofail the deception attempt even if the player spent a destiny point. A jawa impersonating a human stretches credibility no matter the skill of the jawa, but the compounding factors (notoriety and fame of the PC and the rockstar, etc.) steer it toward impossibility.
I'm reminded of the time a player declared that he was using the rogue bonus action to hide in the middle of an open room where every enemy had line of sight to him. The stealth skill does not make people blind anymore than deception makes them stupid.
"Yes, and" is not always the appropriate response, especially when a player is using his stats as a blunt force instrument.
|
|
|
Post by friartook on Mar 19, 2016 3:30:19 GMT
I see your point for sure @nevvur. I have said no to them before. I've denied the possibility of even making a check in certain situations, because there's just no way to succeed.
EotE gives a lot of room for the impossible to become possible. Its possible to succeed at really difficult things. However, the flip is also true; its always possible to fail, even on really easy checks.
I allowed that particular Deception because it was ridiculous and hilarious. I made the check really hard because, as you said, it should be impossible. In the player's favor, this deception made for a totally hilarious arc. They fooled a lot of people and tried to set up a fake concert to lure out a Hutt they were supposed to be assassinating. They laid out a great plan. Too bad the Hutt didn't buy it (they claimed to be there to put on a special show just for him; he had no idea why, so was naturally suspicious).
All that to say, I understand the limits of possibility, but I enjoy the flexibility of EotE. I like the players being able to be the proverbial Big Damn Heroes and do crazy action movie things. My problem has a lot more to do with them avoiding the consequences of their actions, then acting all incredulous and mad every time I throw a bad situation at them that is a direct result of their own behavior.
But I'm ok with that. They can go ahead and be mad.
I'm thinking here of something The Angry GM has written many times: players (people?) are bad at knowing what they want. Players (people?) will say they want to succeed and get more loot and get away with everything and level up faster. But the game moments they remember are the times they overcame impossible odds, when they thought their characters were going to die, when they failed a check which put them in a terrible situation that they had to use their wits to get out of. We play these games to tell great stories. The stories we love tend to be the ones where the characters overcome the impossible and are changed somehow by the crucible.
|
|
|
Post by catcharlie on Mar 19, 2016 21:13:04 GMT
The more time passes, the calmer I get about all this. I've had this on a few non-RPG related things, the next time something like it that gets under your skin with the group will just have more fuel for the fire. Hope everything gets resolved.
|
|
|
Post by ino on Mar 21, 2016 18:37:42 GMT
That's getting into an evil realm for me, and it sparks my hero module. I want to fight them now. I want them to lose. That is not how I approach GMing and I'm working through that. I'm choosing specific points I want to resist them on. Been meaning to get back to u about that. I know the feeling when emotions get high at the table. If your looking for a mindspace to get into, don't play dm as a hero. Dm as an insidious immortal bad guy thats there to make them suffer. Not fail. Not die. Suffer. They trick children for their own lightsabers? Good... Let them keep them. Let the lightsabers cut down "lesser evils", and I'll come sweep in at the end. Set them up with the families of their victims. Let them hear stories of their consequences instead of throwing it directly in their face. Let them be pawns to your more evil plot and make them play into ur hands. Think about the subtle long game. Nothing drives players crazier than being tricked.
|
|
|
Post by friartook on Mar 30, 2016 5:58:47 GMT
Thanks to everyone who responded here. Finally got to our next session tonight. The Jawa blew up his dad. But I don't care anymore. I told them straight up they were the bad guys, and that they were screwed next session. Campaign ends in, at the most, two sessions. On the flip side, we "wasted" half of tonight's session discussing ideas for our next campaign. They all have character ideas and they are all on board with the world I'm building and the type of game I want to run. I have high hopes for the future! And it's back to D&D, so you may see more of me around here. Sorry in advance
|
|
|
Post by swordnut on Apr 5, 2016 10:42:57 GMT
Villains need heroes.
|
|
|
Post by friartook on Apr 7, 2016 21:28:32 GMT
I must say, this was the single best piece of advice I recieved. We finished up this campaign on Tuesday. Only one player ended up dead. He got killed by a Jedi he tried to shoot. Everybody got all mad, saying, "What, he's just gonna kill him? What kind of Jedi is this guy?" I said, "He's a Jedi in exile, who had other Jedi under his care and was sheltering force sensitive children on a secret planet during wartime. You killed one of his fellow Jedi, kidnapped 6 younglings, and just tried to shoot him in the face. You. Are. The. Bad. Guys. He's the hero here, and he's fighting to the death." I sent Rebel officers after them, Stormtroopers, Jedi and an Imperial Inquisitor. The remaining PCs just barely got away. A lucky roll saved them from getting blown out of the sky by a Star Destroyer as they escaped. I am not ashamed to say that, as a GM, it was the single most satisfying session of the whole campaign for me. Side note: light sabers ain't nothin' to f&%^ with in Edge of the Empire.
|
|
|
Post by swordnut on Apr 8, 2016 13:43:47 GMT
I must say, this was the single best piece of advice I recieved. We finished up this campaign on Tuesday. Only one player ended up dead. He got killed by a Jedi he tried to shoot. Everybody got all mad, saying, "What, he's just gonna kill him? What kind of Jedi is this guy?" I said, "He's a Jedi in exile, who had other Jedi under his care and was sheltering force sensitive children on a secret planet during wartime. You killed one of his fellow Jedi, kidnapped 6 younglings, and just tried to shoot him in the face. You. Are. The. Bad. Guys. He's the hero here, and he's fighting to the death." I sent Rebel officers after them, Stormtroopers, Jedi and an Imperial Inquisitor. The remaining PCs just barely got away. A lucky roll saved them from getting blown out of the sky by a Star Destroyer as they escaped. I am not ashamed to say that, as a GM, it was the single most satisfying session of the whole campaign for me. Side note: light sabers ain't nothin' to f&%^ with in Edge of the Empire. Now you have a perfect hook for the sequel.
|
|
|
Post by friartook on Apr 8, 2016 14:32:40 GMT
Now you have a perfect hook for the sequel. Oh yeah! In our epilogue, the Jawa said he "Found a branch of the Empire that doesn't want him dead, and gets trained in the dark side and becomes a Sith Lord." That's where he wanted his character to go. I thought, "Good. Now I have the big bad villain for our next Star Wars campaign." Now I just have to figure out how to get my hands on his character sheet...
|
|
|
Post by swordnut on Apr 8, 2016 14:42:12 GMT
Now you have a perfect hook for the sequel. Oh yeah! In our epilogue, the Jawa said he "Found a branch of the Empire that doesn't want him dead, and gets trained in the dark side and becomes a Sith Lord." That's where he wanted his character to go. I thought, "Good. Now I have the big bad villain for our next Star Wars campaign." Now I just have to figure out how to get my hands on his character sheet... Have everyone turn them in. Photocopy them and return them. They will know something is up, but not precisely what
|
|
|
Post by joatmoniac on Apr 8, 2016 19:15:30 GMT
Oh yeah! In our epilogue, the Jawa said he "Found a branch of the Empire that doesn't want him dead, and gets trained in the dark side and becomes a Sith Lord." That's where he wanted his character to go. I thought, "Good. Now I have the big bad villain for our next Star Wars campaign." Now I just have to figure out how to get my hands on his character sheet... Have everyone turn them in. Photocopy them and return them. They will know something is up, but not precisely what I do this just to double check that everything is on the up and up with my players. Really it's only one who does his character sheet like gas prices. Event he rumor of a plus and he tends to write it down, but then forgets why it is there, or if it should be and just leaves it, haha.
|
|
|
Post by friartook on Apr 8, 2016 19:59:06 GMT
I just sent a message saying I "wanted to see what they all did with their characters". Which is true. I just gave them free reign on spending their XP. EotE uses XP like points to buy abilities; there's no levels. So it will actually be interesting to see all the abilities they took.
|
|
|
Post by swordnut on Apr 9, 2016 15:45:07 GMT
Its only logical they should change their names with so many folks after them.
|
|