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Post by friartook on Feb 6, 2015 16:04:29 GMT
Hello all,
Does anyone have a really strong handle on the 5th Edition spellcasting rules for all the classes? They have changed a bit from the 3.5 and 2e rules I knew well, and I'm having a hard time figuring them out. The 5e PHB, for all the greatness it contains, is poorly laid out and confusing in this area.
For example: Clerics get a certain number of spell slots, but its unclear how many they may have prepared at one time. Sorcerers know a certain number of spells per level, and have a certain number of spell slots per level to cast them with. Fairly easy. Unlike Sorcerers, Clerics can change which spells they have prepared. However, its unclear how many spells they can have prepared and how many spells they "know" (the list they can prepare from). Currently, I allow my cleric to have access to the full cleric spell list (level appropriate of course) and allow him to prepare a number of spells per level equal to his spell slots per level, but I think this is wrong.
Does the ability modifier come in here at all?
I'm darn lucky I don't have a Wizard in the party, as their setup is even more confusing.
Please don't respond with any "I think" answers. I'm already fudging things and making stuff up. I'm looking for a clear breakdown of spellcasting by class. I guess I don't really care if it conforms exactly to the official rules, I just want it to be clear cut and make sense.
Thanks! Friar Took
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Post by Prof. Fluff on Feb 6, 2015 21:00:33 GMT
Each time you prepare your Cleric lIst (after a long rest) you prepare a number of spells equal to your Wisdom Modifier plus your Cleric Level (Minimum of one spell). For example, if you are a 3rd level cleric, you have four 1st level and two 2nd level spell slots.With a Wisdom of 16, your list of prepared spells can include six spells of 1st or 2nd level, in any combination.
Casting a spell does not remove it from this list, only uses the spell slot (some spells can be cast with higher spell slots for greater effect)
If you have access to Domain Spells you have these prepared in addition to the regular number based on Wisdom Mod and Level (essentially the are ALWAYS prepared) but they still use a slot to cast them.
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Post by friartook on Feb 6, 2015 21:29:27 GMT
Thanks so much Professor! That clears things up. I read the domain spells as being at will, which was causing me some trouble with spell spamming.
Do all the classes use the same formula beside Sorcerer? Level+Ability Modifier? Cantrips, are they just static? You know the ones you know and don't have access to the others on the list?
This reveals one of, IMHO, the few flaws in 5e: Unclear wording and poor organization in the books. There is a lot of great info, but its not always easy to find. And often, when you do find it, the wording is unclear.
Thanks again!
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Post by Dalren on Feb 6, 2015 21:43:40 GMT
Here's the quick run down. There's basically two ways to determine which spells are available to a given character. The first pertains to classes that list a number of known spells on their class table. You simply know that number of spells. This list can only change when you gain a level in the spell-casting class. You either know a spell or you do not. Classes that use this method include Bard, Fighter (Eldritch Knight), Ranger, Rogue (Arcane Trickster), Sorcerer, and Warlock.
The second way to determine available spells is by preparing them. This is usually determined by adding your casting ability modifier to your class level for the given class. Clerics and Druids use (Wis mod + Class Level) while Wizards use (Int mod + Class Level). Paladins are only half-casters and use Wis mod + 1/2 Paladin class level. Once you determine how many spells you can prepared, you choose that number of spells from the relevant list. For Cleric, Druid, and Paladin, the entire class spell list is available (subject to the level of spell slots you can prepare). For Wizards, prepared spells are chosen from those in the Wizard's Spellbook. You can change which spells you have prepared at the end of a long rest by spending 1 minute per spell level for each spell on your prepared list.
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Post by dm_mainprize on Feb 6, 2015 22:39:43 GMT
Glad this question was asked, It took me a few reads of the PHB to catch a lot of little things like this. Being a new DM, I skimmed it a few times, then read the sections on classes and races my players would be playing as. Since then and running sessions for a few month, I started the task of reading each of the core books word for word. I am getting close to finishing the PHB and will move on to the DMG. This task though tedious has helped me a ton as a DM and helped with lots of the confusion I had from odd wording.
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Post by friartook on Feb 7, 2015 16:03:36 GMT
I started the task of reading each of the core books word for word. Ain't nobody got time for dat! With two jobs, three kids, a relationship to maintain and a campaign to design and run...yeah. One of the many reasons I am super happy to have these forums and excited to see the community grow.
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Post by dm_mainprize on Feb 9, 2015 0:22:06 GMT
Haha ya I hear you life can be super busy. But living in NYC I can read on the train twice a day and on my lunch break. Also being a brand new DM and brand new to D&D I need to immerse myself super deep.
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Post by DMC on Feb 9, 2015 21:43:22 GMT
Spellcasting classes generally all use that same formula, yes. However there's one thing that the devs have Tweeted that was in need of serious clarification, and that is Cantrips that scale with increasing levels, use your total character class when determining damage, not just your spellcasting class.
For instance, if you are a Warlock1/Fighter10, you're an 11th level PC. Your Warlock cantrips that say "At Xth level your damage increases to XdX,", means you take your total PC level into account when figuring that.
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Post by dm_mainprize on Feb 14, 2015 2:33:33 GMT
Hey guys saw this post on reddit and though I would copy pasta it here. credit to reddit user u/tanketom
There are two main forms of spellcasting – divine and arcane. Divine is from a god, and arcane are from studies of magic of some sort.
Druids and clerics can – every long rest – fill their spell slots according to the spell table in their class. They choose from any spell on their list as long as they are able to cast a spell of that level. Example: A level 5 Druid can cast four level 1 spells, three level 2 spells, and two level 3 spells every long rest. Because he has Wisdom 18 (a modifier of 4) he can choose any 9 (level 5 + Wisdom modifier 4) spells from his spell list, as long as their level 3 and under. Cantrips are chosen a different way, you are stuck with the ones you choose, and you're able to cast them as often as you want.
Paladins choose the same way, but doesn't have as many spell slots. They can also expend one spell slot to do their Divine Smite instead.
Rangers are a version of arcane casters, and gain a set number of spells every level according to his spell table. You can choose from the list at level-up, as long as you can cast that level.
Example: A level 5 Ranger has four spells known. First level: none. Second level: two level 1 spells. Third level: A new level 1 spell. Fourth level: No new spells. Fifth level: A new level 1 spell OR a level 2 spell. Also, in general, you can always spend a level 2 spell slot to cast a level 1 spell (if you're out of level 1 slots), and some spells gain extra power when this is done.
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Post by friartook on Feb 14, 2015 4:10:31 GMT
Nice find Mainprize, much appreciated. Now all I gotta do is get a handle on Wizards. Guess its time to actually read that chapter of the PHB
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Post by DM Chris on Feb 14, 2015 5:22:43 GMT
Nice find Mainprize, much appreciated. Now all I gotta do is get a handle on Wizards. Guess its time to actually read that chapter of the PHB That section in the PHB is a great section in the book. Give it a go. You won't be disappointed. I really want to try out the the transmutation school or have one of my players do it. There is a lot of fun and tricky things to be done with that school of thought.
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Post by dm_mainprize on Feb 17, 2015 1:59:16 GMT
I have a question that is kinda related to spellcasting. It has to do with spellbooks and the classes that use them. How does it work at the table the preparing of a book and its use, I understand the concept, but how does it actually play out at the table. Is it just a bump in the road and the player decides to copy a spell and I just say something like "you spend 3 hours copying this new spell into your book" or should it be more than that? Just curious how that part of a session should function.
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Post by DMC on Feb 17, 2015 16:57:27 GMT
I never bothered with the mechanics or actually RPing out the time it takes to put a new spell in your book. Not when it's the Wizard's own leveling up. The only times I've done it is if they defeat another Wizard and they want to put his spells in their book. To me, taking the time in that case meant learning the other Wizard's shorthand, notes, writing, etc. It's also a matter of if the foe Wizard even wrote his book in Common. It could be in a language that no one in the party speaks.
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Post by umbralwalker on Feb 26, 2015 23:13:17 GMT
The key to wizard spellbooks and copying spells is both expense and time. It takes 50gp and 2 hours per spell level. I've been finding that the cost and time are quite limiting at our table, maybe because we aren't rolling in cash even at 5th or 6th level. That's why the specialty schools all have a 1/2 price/time ability for their specialty spells. Our DM (and I) also requires the wizard to be someplace safe, with proper lighting, equipment, and relatively quiet to focus. We don't really allow copying spells on the road unless the players take some significant precautions.
Another spellcasting class quirk to pay attention to is that warlocks may only get 1-4 spell slots, but 1) their slots are all the highest spell level they can cast, and 2) they regain their slots after a short rest instead of a long rest. That means, even their 1st level spells get pretty powerful if they can scale, like burning hands, and they cast them at 5th level.
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Post by friartook on Mar 12, 2015 13:25:25 GMT
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