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Post by frohtastic on Sept 8, 2015 3:38:19 GMT
So I'm currently working on my world since the previous gamegroup kinda fell apart (people not showing up, few responding to texts, etc) two of the players from the previous group texted me / talked with me about maybe restarting with just the two of them. So theres the dilemma about how to go about it. Which kinda has stalled my progress a little in the world-building center (though I have either little time / litttle creativity in that departement lately) Whats already come to mind of an solution is ( Pro's being bold, cons being italic ) - Henchmen. Allows the players slightly more freedom and lets me throw harder encounters their way. One of the players is very new and thus I think his character is already more than enough for him to handle. and in the case of DMPC, im not sure I would handle it correctly (though I have the workings of a villain that can work as that)
- Decreasing the monster stats / reducing damage rolls (the d8 becoming d4 etc ) Makes battle encounters more managable for the players. makes for slight hassle for me in terms of "What the f*** is the CR then?" plus might make the players less vary of danger
- Granting higher stats, maxing hit die. Better stats better survivability and more jack-of-all-trades. We already usualy roll for stats anyways so I dont think theres much difference there. Already gonna grant them max hit dice anyways since they are only 2, if only for the first few levels.
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Post by lasersniper on Sept 8, 2015 4:15:30 GMT
Don't know what type of game your are planning on, but if their characters are more RP then battle play I would suggest giving them options to recruit NPC mercs or something. Then they could control them like a familiar so you wouldn't have to hassle over it. While I like your idea to reduce damage rolls, there are some classes that just don't excel in a straight up fight, like the bard or a good portion of rouges. Now of course this is assuming your players are RP centric. If they prefer the hack and slash method then it sounds like you got that figured out.
I personally don't enjoy the idea of giving the players characters the ability to be "jack-of-all-trades" unless they designed to be so, ie the bard. I personally would encourage RP by working with them so they know some people that could possibly help them with some of their weaker areas. Plus, if there are NPC's that get embedded with the party for a while, there is a perfect vessel to hook them with a plot line.
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Post by frohtastic on Sept 8, 2015 4:19:21 GMT
Don't know what type of game your are planning on, but if their characters are more RP then battle play I would suggest giving them options to recruit NPC mercs or something. Then they could control them like a familiar so you wouldn't have to hassle over it. While I like your idea to reduce damage rolls, there are some classes that just don't excel in a straight up fight, like the bard or a good portion of rouges. Now of course this is assuming your players are RP centric. If they prefer the hack and slash method then it sounds like you got that figured out. I personally don't enjoy the idea of giving the players characters the ability to be "jack-of-all-trades" unless they designed to be so, ie the bard. I personally would encourage RP by working with them so they know some people that could possibly help them with some of their weaker areas. Plus, if there are NPC's that get embedded with the party for a while, there is a perfect vessel to hook them with a plot line. Again, the two players are pretty new so we dont know yet what kind of players they are
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Samuel Wise
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Favorite D&D Class: Warlock
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Post by Samuel Wise on Sept 8, 2015 5:33:27 GMT
Ooh! That sounds awesome. I did a one shot with only two people in a 5e game once. It was a blast. There is a whole different dynamic when there is only two people at the game. They almost naturally create a bond together, making for some amazing RP (even between people who have never RPd before). What I used to help me learn more about a 2-player game was tribality's awesome article on party size: tribality.com/2015/05/19/and-how-many-will-be-in-your-party/I think it is one of the most useful articles I've ever read when it comes to RPGs. As for your changes, they're great. When I played with my players, I don't think they were exactly needed. However, battles do start going fast when there is only two people. Less monsters, less people. So I can certainly see where you would need to change some things (for example: you lowered the damage rolls for both the characters and the monsters). It's not like I've played a lot of 2-player games.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2015 6:24:26 GMT
Option 1: This is a good solution, but not something you should throw at new players right away. Give it a few sessions before making it an option. After several more sessions with hirelings, offer to let them play two PCs if that sounds appealing to them.
Personally, I'm cool with DM PCs as well. There are a number of traps inherent in using them, so be wary about implementing them if you go this route (don't ever hog the spotlight, never be more powerful than the PCs, don't provide solutions to your own puzzles, and don't engage in long conversations with other NPCs)
Option 2: Don't do it! The reasons you described are good enough. On top of that, I'll add that it can cause trouble with consistency in the future, when your PCs are higher level and you need to restore the baddies to their proper power level.
Option 3: An okay solution. New players won't know the difference, but if more players ever join the table, you've gotta contend with a new power imbalance and adjust encounters even more... i.e. If 2 buffed PCs = 3 normal PCs, then 3 = ~5 and 4 = 6.
---
Honestly, I think your best option is to just take it easy on the duo for a few sessions, and adjust encounter difficulty for future sessions based on the results. There are some pretty strong opinions in the gamer community about DM PCs, but I think that's the second best solution, followed by hirelings/two PCs each.
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Post by Vulash on Sept 8, 2015 18:53:08 GMT
Option 1: This is a good solution, but not something you should throw at new players right away. Give it a few sessions before making it an option. After several more sessions with hirelings, offer to let them play two PCs if that sounds appealing to them. Personally, I'm cool with DM PCs as well. There are a number of traps inherent in using them, so be wary about implementing them if you go this route (don't ever hog the spotlight, never be more powerful than the PCs, don't provide solutions to your own puzzles, and don't engage in long conversations with other NPCs) Option 2: Don't do it! The reasons you described are good enough. On top of that, I'll add that it can cause trouble with consistency in the future, when your PCs are higher level and you need to restore the baddies to their proper power level. Option 3: An okay solution. New players won't know the difference, but if more players ever join the table, you've gotta contend with a new power imbalance and adjust encounters even more... i.e. If 2 buffed PCs = 3 normal PCs, then 3 = ~5 and 4 = 6. --- Honestly, I think your best option is to just take it easy on the duo for a few sessions, and adjust encounter difficulty for future sessions based on the results. There are some pretty strong opinions in the gamer community about DM PCs, but I think that's the second best solution, followed by hirelings/two PCs each. I'm going to second this advice wholeheartedly. When I was younger we often struggled to get a full group, and would only have 2 or 3 (often 2) players. Back then there wasn't a CR, and we didn't even think about it. When 3.0 came out with their CR concept I balked at it because it was so rigidly designed for 4, and this is part of the reason. Since then I've come to use it more often and it's a solid place to start, but don't worry about it too much. I think if you just err on the cautious side with your first few encounters, you'll quickly get a feel for what is an acceptable encounter for the 2 of them. With a little practice it's amazing how good you can get at determining appropriate encounters for a party. I'm also a believer that parties will rise (or fall) to the occasion to meet the challenge within a small range. Obviously, you can quickly overdo or underdo it, but I've been involved in groups that had easy fights for a bit that began to seem tough - and when they finally were involved in a real tough fight they panic'ed and thought everyone was going to die....only to win the encounters because they dug a little further into their bags of tricks. If you were to make any change at all, I'd say make a couple little expendable tricks available to them. This doesn't change the long term balance of the game, but gives them some short term options if you misjudge things. A potion of firebreath, or even a couple healing potions can make a big difference. Perhaps a wand that has limited charges and can't be recharged. Things like that they'll treasure and horde until it's absolutely necessary to use it - and when they do have to use they'll remember that tough fight they barely survived.
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Post by DMC on Sept 9, 2015 15:49:03 GMT
Option 1: This is a good solution, but not something you should throw at new players right away. Give it a few sessions before making it an option. After several more sessions with hirelings, offer to let them play two PCs if that sounds appealing to them. Personally, I'm cool with DM PCs as well. There are a number of traps inherent in using them, so be wary about implementing them if you go this route (don't ever hog the spotlight, never be more powerful than the PCs, don't provide solutions to your own puzzles, and don't engage in long conversations with other NPCs) Option 2: Don't do it! The reasons you described are good enough. On top of that, I'll add that it can cause trouble with consistency in the future, when your PCs are higher level and you need to restore the baddies to their proper power level. Option 3: An okay solution. New players won't know the difference, but if more players ever join the table, you've gotta contend with a new power imbalance and adjust encounters even more... i.e. If 2 buffed PCs = 3 normal PCs, then 3 = ~5 and 4 = 6. --- Honestly, I think your best option is to just take it easy on the duo for a few sessions, and adjust encounter difficulty for future sessions based on the results. There are some pretty strong opinions in the gamer community about DM PCs, but I think that's the second best solution, followed by hirelings/two PCs each. All excellent points. But Nevvur's closing line was best. Start easy at first. Start with cutting the CR's in half. If an encounter calls for four monsters on a 4-party group, use two and see how it goes. You can always add more as the game/encounter progresses. Also, there's no reason you can't adjust the monster's HP. If the MM stat block says Orcs have 12 hit points, mix it up. Maybe some orcs are already battle-damaged and weaker than others (be sure to telegraph this and let the players know that they can see some are cut up, bandaged, etc.). This allows for the same number (or even more!) of monsters that a normal 4-party group would face, but means they should hopefully be able to take some of them out super easy. You can give them lower HP, and/or attacks at Disadvantage due to damage they've taken previously, etc.
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Post by arnil on Sept 13, 2015 6:07:59 GMT
I ran a 2 player 3.5 Game for a year and i find that as a unit they always worked better together and got out of alot of tpk situations. I now have added one player and started a 5e game and they don't have the same unity but they are doing okay. The biggest issue ive seen is that the first 3 levels are deadly but the power curve flips quickly with my players destroying cr+3to+4 above them encounters. However, my biggest piece of advice is give the players an out. I had my players fighting an army of driders at like 3rd level in my 3.5 Game but after they almost died rocks fell and closed off the passageway. dungeonsandtulu.wordpress.com/
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