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Post by robosnake on Jan 24, 2016 20:04:23 GMT
I have a question for you other DMs - sometimes a player wants a spell that is the same as one from the PHB but deals a different kind of energy damage. For example, instead of burning hands with a 15' arc of fire, they want freezing hands with a 15' arc of cold. My question is, do you just let players transpose spells that way? Do they have to research them? Or take a feat, or maybe a special evocation ability or something?
I haven't had players ask for this in a while, but I'd be inclined (in 5th Ed) to just give the different spell to a sorcerer, and have a wizard do some research and make an Arcana roll to create the similar spell - maybe DC 10 + spell level (50gp lost if they fail), and they have to have the spell they're "modding" in there first. So if they have burning hands already, they can add freezing hands for 50gp and a successful DC 11 Arcana roll. Maybe it takes 1 day of research per spell level rather than 2 hours that scribing requires.
Thoughts?
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DM Tyler
Commoner
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Favorite D&D Class: Druid / Bard
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Post by DM Tyler on Jan 24, 2016 20:53:12 GMT
For something like a cleric or sorcerer, if it fits their character better I'd let them switch them out for free. Your solution makes sense for a wizard, especially if he wants to have *both* spells. A Cleric of Hel would just have Freezing Hands by default, if you ask me  |
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Post by catcharlie on Jan 24, 2016 22:41:33 GMT
In 3/.5 there was a feat that they could take that would allow a magic user (It could have only been wizard though) to swap the elemental type of a spell out for a different one, thought I do think that's a little over the top.
I think your solution sounds like a good work around.
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Post by lasersniper on Jan 24, 2016 22:47:09 GMT
I agree with Tyler, although I do like your rules on changing the spells element Robo. Personally I am wary of adding more rules to a game, especially if it has to do with story flavor. What I think would be the best solution is let them start out with whatever makes sense story wise, and then use the rules you suggested to ADD a new damage type. So you could actually switch between damage types. If it is an at will then they can just call the damage type, but if it is a spell that uses a spell slot, I would think they would need to call what damage type the chose when preparing spells. You also want it to make sense, like burning hands into freezing hands makes sense. But being able to change Scorching Ray to Force Ray? Eeeeeh maybe not. Though if you just stick to the elemental damage types I think you should be okay.
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Post by robosnake on Jan 25, 2016 0:09:48 GMT
I agree with Tyler, although I do like your rules on changing the spells element Robo. Personally I am wary of adding more rules to a game, especially if it has to do with story flavor. What I think would be the best solution is let them start out with whatever makes sense story wise, and then use the rules you suggested to ADD a new damage type. So you could actually switch between damage types. If it is an at will then they can just call the damage type, but if it is a spell that uses a spell slot, I would think they would need to call what damage type the chose when preparing spells. You also want it to make sense, like burning hands into freezing hands makes sense. But being able to change Scorching Ray to Force Ray? Eeeeeh maybe not. Though if you just stick to the elemental damage types I think you should be okay. A good point. In this case, I'm just thinking of switching among the common damage types: fire, cold, lightning, maybe acid. Things like force or psychic, radiant or necrotic, etc. I think of as special damage types. But, for example, even with a divine caster, if you wanted to switch out flame strike with frost strike, that would be fine, but I wouldn't switch between fire and force. I get the sense that those other damage types are supposed to be specific to divine casters (radiant and necrotic) or rare (force and psychic). |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2016 1:02:03 GMT
In 5e, spellcasters are already imbalanced compared to non-spellcasters, generally speaking. Increasing their versatility by allowing them to alter damage types creates more imbalance. This isn't too problematic if the entire party is composed of spellcasters, though house rules and homebrews that favor casters may discourage players from trying a non-spellcaster class in the future. If you already have non-spellcasters in the party, they may feel like they're falling behind in terms of what they bring to the party.
While this increased versatility does not present a dramatic increase in overall power, it is still significant enough to require great deliberation IMO.
If you move forward with the idea, be aware that gold will probably not be such a precious commodity at later levels, unless you're a stingy DM. Consider requiring an alternate resource to create these new damage typed spells, such as an exotic element that requires an entire adventure to acquire.
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Post by robosnake on Feb 2, 2016 3:37:59 GMT
In 5e, spellcasters are already imbalanced compared to non-spellcasters, generally speaking. Increasing their versatility by allowing them to alter damage types creates more imbalance. This isn't too problematic if the entire party is composed of spellcasters, though house rules and homebrews that favor casters may discourage players from trying a non-spellcaster class in the future. If you already have non-spellcasters in the party, they may feel like they're falling behind in terms of what they bring to the party. While this increased versatility does not present a dramatic increase in overall power, it is still significant enough to require great deliberation IMO. If you move forward with the idea, be aware that gold will probably not be such a precious commodity at later levels, unless you're a stingy DM. Consider requiring an alternate resource to create these new damage typed spells, such as an exotic element that requires an entire adventure to acquire. At least something like an elemental component that can only be found in a hazardous place - like requiring the heart of a Salamander or the tears of a Galeb Duhr, or a drop of seawater that has never seen the sun. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2016 7:53:26 GMT
Sure, something like that is basically what I had in mind, though it could really be anything that sounds fun and interesting for the group. For instance, maybe another wizard already knows the alternate damage type spell, but will only teach it to the PC if he performs a quest.
Part of the point is to get the other players to buy into the idea of the power bump. If PC 1 simply pays a sum of gold and makes a skill check to get the new spell, the credit is all his when it wins the day. If PC 2 and 3 helped him acquire the heart of a salamander to get the new spell, they all own the victory.
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Post by joatmoniac on Feb 3, 2016 17:08:29 GMT
In that same way, you could equate the new spell damage type as a boost in the power of the caster character. Just as the brute fighter gets a new +2 great sword of awesome the wizard can now cast spells leveraging the element of cold. The other option is having all of the players take the spell based focus for their individual classes, but that would mean they want to, or that you tell them to which certainly may not be the case. Great ideas, and I agree with making the force, psychic, radiant, and necrotic not immediately factor into the idea, but could be ones that require greater questing at higher levels.
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Post by dmxtrordinari on Feb 17, 2016 7:11:47 GMT
Most times people simply want to flavor their spells different, but not switch out anything mechanical like damage type which I see no problem with. Mechanics wise if someone wants to be a Freeze Mage, and they're primarily seeing spells like Burning Hands or Fireball that does fire damage, I'd allow them to alter those spells to do cold damage or what have you. As far as creating a whole separate mechanic for switching damage types I'd stay away from that personally simply to how 5e is set up with immunities, resistances ect.
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