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Post by Nathanielisagod on Mar 23, 2016 2:52:57 GMT
I'm playing with a bunch of first-time players, as a relatively new DM. I have a grasp on the game and its constructs, but they need a guiding hand more often than not. My biggest complaint right now is from a player who wants what essentially amounts to an atlas of the world I've made. He's convinced that it should essentially be like Skyrim, where he can look at all the places he wants to go and just shoot over there. So far, everyone has taken to the idea of writing their own maps and using their memory to recall lands. I haven't seen the "sale" of a map in any form of tradesman listing, nor do I think that it's completely necessary. But I'm starting to sound like a real by "withholding" my world map. Any ideas on what to do?
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Post by dmsam on Mar 23, 2016 15:49:58 GMT
I think that you should draw out the map! Start small and local, probably the closest 100 square miles. As the players approach a border of that square, expand the next 100 square miles in that cardinal direction. Don't bother detailing every city and town just yet. Do it as players get near those places.
Piece everything together once you have a substantial amount of the map covered (you should have a few interconnected squares at that point). Cartography is a lot of fun!
As for the player that wants to fast travel in Skyrim, tell him he hasn't unlocked that point of interest yet, but reassure that it exists if the party wants to head in that direction.
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Post by dm_mainprize on Mar 23, 2016 17:30:31 GMT
I have some thoughts, Dont give in! some of my players wanted the same from day one. I explained that in the real world we didnt have maps for the common man for quite some time. Also the commom man night be educated enough to figure out or know what they are looking at.
Eventually one of them did a really great job roleplaying and go to speak with the leader of a military garrison. He had maps! and with some lucky rolls and good roleplaying was able to acquire a regional map of the local area. They dont need a map to play the game.
They are characters in a world, not demigods with access to fast travel, way points, a table top rpg game is very different from a video game.
I would just have a chat with them and explain why maps either dont exist, arent sold, or arent common. It could be that no cartographers or explorers have produced one yet. If not having access to a map of the world, continent etc is gonna make some one leave my table, I would think they probably would have other personality issues or conflicts as well.
So communicate with your players. Identify their wants and their needs. Those are different. Then keep in mind we want everyone to have fun. Maybe the player who so desperately wants a map could become the worlds first and most famous cartographer. Spin the making and producing of maps into the story as a whole.
Good luck and keep us posted.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2016 18:32:05 GMT
Sam and Mainprize both make good points.
On top of that, have you seen medieval maps? Many of them are so misshapen and vague as to be practically useless for actual navigation. They're more art than science.
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Post by friartook on Mar 24, 2016 2:51:24 GMT
Sam and Mainprize both make good points. On top of that, have you seen medieval maps? Many of them are so misshapen and vague as to be practically useless for actual navigation. They're more art than science. This is pretty close to my own advice. Provide a map, but make most of it vague. A bit of googling should turn up some real world examples. |
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Post by swordnut on Mar 24, 2016 11:38:42 GMT
Up until about the 17th century, maps were for nobles/clergy and for one of 3 purposes: Military intel. - these were often destroyed or drafted in code form to deny them the enemy (sea charts were similarly obscure) Land ownership. These were often drawn with a specific purpose, such as a disagreement. Almost all Ive ever seen are conceptual in scale. That means the distances between 2 points is a reflection of the time taken to travel between those points, not their physical distance. Philosophical/religious. Like the Mappa Mundi, where jerusalem is at the centre of the world and a lot of it is made up because its heathen. Additional purpose: Profit. There were always charlatans ready to rob a fool Solution: if he wants a map, it doesnt need to be a *correct* map. And make his character pay through the nose for it.  Turn it upside down and look for the red sea |
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Post by joatmoniac on Mar 25, 2016 8:21:01 GMT
That is a fantastic example of a map, and style of map, to hand over to the player. Even until very modern times, and of course the implementation of Google maps the accuracy could only get so good. Especially if there are untraveled areas on the map then it would be impossible to have a Skyrim style map available to anyone.
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Post by onyxangel24 on Mar 25, 2016 13:42:28 GMT
I would agree on not giving in. Thats a DM choice really. I wil say, My dad when he DM's our campaigns he will show us only a SMALL portion of the map so we have a general idea of where we are....where to go, but he even informs that is the ONLY reason, he also knows we wont look and say Oh theres a trap there! Not every player is like that & with them all being roughly new...and you being new, I would reccomend you do what you feel is right. If someone else doesnt like it, I would simply say "If you think you can do better then you run a game when im done with this one" You do what you feel is best and simply remind him your the DM right now and he doesn't have to play if he doesnt like how your doing it. (If he chooses not t oplay after that, be prepared to have someone play 2 characters depending on his role and his classes importance in the campaign)  Hope you get the answer your looking soon! |
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Post by friartook on Mar 26, 2016 4:32:42 GMT
"If you think you can do better then you run a game when im done with this one" This got an evil chuckle out of me. I've had this conversation with my table when we had some power dynamic struggles surrounding my DM style. It went about as I suspected: A bit of noise and some delusions of grandeur which all came to naught. |
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Post by onyxangel24 on Mar 26, 2016 14:33:39 GMT
Yea, sometimes I have the oddest ways of getting my point across!
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Post by Nathanielisagod on Mar 27, 2016 20:40:19 GMT
Alright, thank you everyone! I appreciate it. The argument was solved at long last. Most of my players consented to the need to map things themselves. However, in justifying the world and making things copacetic, the player who wanted the map aptly pointed out that having multiple kingdoms and a barracks in one of my cities signifies an army, of which they have seen soldiers. So, with my thanks to Mainprize, if they want a map (one that they understand will not be extravagantly detailed), they will have to find an outpost and either charm/steal themselves a map.
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Hope you get the answer your looking soon!