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Post by whipstache on Oct 21, 2015 14:35:19 GMT
I'm finally starting my first campaign as a DM later this year (yay!) and one of my players wants to play a gunslinger type. We've tried working within the rogue and ranger classes, and are having a difficult time pinning it down. We looked at this one, but it's really important for this world that a) the weapon not use gunpowder or be made of metal or shoot metal and b) he not use magic. So, we're trying to come up with a mechanic for a semi-automatic hand crossbow. There's also this one, which is based on a homebrew by the guys from Critical Role podcast. Then there's this interesting comment from Reddit (that I will have to think more about): "I found that a combination of the base battlemaster and rogue actually worked incredibly well. Maneuvers can mimic the trick shots that the gunslinger gets, toughens them up a bit, can give you prof in an alchemy kit or whatever the gunslinger need in your setting, and rogue allows for the sneak attack that makes the gun hard hitting because of its reloading aspect. Then just give them the alert feat and you've got yourself a quick drawing gunslinger." Here's my challenge: Take any (or all) of these builds, and help me put together a gunslinger build that doesn't use magic or gunpowder, and help me figure out how to make a weapon that doesn't require a manual reload. Thanks in advance for your help! |
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Post by catcharlie on Oct 21, 2015 22:20:06 GMT
Okies, I don't know about anyone else but I want to understand a few things. I'm finally the weapon not use gunpowder or be made of metal or shoot metal and b) he not use magic. Am I correct in presume that his character not using magic is because you want this to be a martial class and not because it's a low/no magic setting? Does this rule out his weapon being slightly magical*? help me figure out how to make a weapon that doesn't require a manual reload. The 3.5 Players Handbook has stats for repeating crossbows Weapon: Weapon Type: Cost: Damage (M): Critical: Range Increment: Weight Crossbow, Light: Simple Ranged: 35gp: 1d8: 19-20/x2: 80 ft: 4lb Crossbow, Repeating Light: Exotic Ranged: 250gp: 1d8: 19-20/x2: 80 ft: 6lb Crossbow, Heavy: Simple Ranged: 50gp: 1d10: 19-20/x2: 120 ft: 8lb Crossbow, Repeating Heavy: Exotic Ranged: 400gp: 1d8: 19-20/x2: 120 ft: 12lb So for 5e I would probably say Crossbow, Light: Simple Ranged: 25gp: 1d8: N/A: 80/320: 5lb Crossbow, Repeating Light: Martial Ranged: 200gp: 1d8: N/A: 80/320: 7lb Also, how is the player hoping to play the gunslinger? Looking at actual repeating crossbows (see video bellow) they would use both hands to fire and reload (also this is stated in the 3.5 PHB), so if he was hoping he would be able to have one in each hand and fire off a few rounds before reloading that wouldn't be possible (unless we come up with some form of homebrew). * I was thinking that there was a spell that auto reloaded your bow/crossbow though it [Swift Quiver] actually magically moves the ammo from your quiver to your hand allowing you to shoot twice as a bonus action
Swift Quiver (Page 279)
5th Level Transmution
Casting time: 1 bonus action
Range: Touch
Components: V,S,M (a quiver containing at least one piece of ammunition)
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute
You transmute your quiver so it produces an endless supple of nonmagical ammunition, which seems to leap into your hand when you reach for it.
On each of your turns until the spell ends, you can use a bonus action to make two attacks with a weapon that uses ammunition from the quiver. Each time you make such a ranged attack, your quiver magically replaces the piece of ammunition you used with a similar piece of nonmagical ammunition. Any pieces of ammunition created by this spell disintegrate when the spell ends. If the quiver leaves your possession, the spell ends.
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Post by joatmoniac on Oct 21, 2015 23:54:23 GMT
I read this this morning and apparently only wrote a response in my mind, haha. I really like this idea and would also love to know the reason for the restrictions on magic and metal. If you are using the post-post-apoc idea then that would explain the lack of magic and metal (WooT! for the forums and you posting about your world.)
As for the crossbow there are definitely a decent amount of repeating ones that are only wood as exampled by the video catcharlie linked. There aren't any hand ones that I could find either, but as whipstache mentioned in his post a homebrewed hand crossbow is the goal. I think a mix of rogue, fighter, and alchemist could definitely do the trick. Hopefully I can get some time carved out to look at all of the examples you are working with!
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Post by whipstache on Oct 22, 2015 0:29:35 GMT
Am I correct in presume that his character not using magic is because you want this to be a martial class and not because it's a low/no magic setting? Does this rule out his weapon being slightly magical*? Also, how is the player hoping to play the gunslinger? Looking at actual repeating crossbows (see video bellow) they would use both hands to fire and reload (also this is stated in the 3.5 PHB), so if he was hoping he would be able to have one in each hand and fire off a few rounds before reloading that wouldn't be possible (unless we come up with some form of homebrew). There is magic in the world (yes, Joat, it's the Post-Post world  , but people are only just sort of figuring out how to use it, and it's very much tied to nature. The martial classes are going to be pretty strictly martial... but throughout the campaign, people around the world will start learning more about magic and how to use it. He's hoping to play a gunslinger exactly as one would if there were revolvers. Eventually (level 8, maybe) I want to be able to give him weapons that will allow him to shoot 10-12 bolts (2 single-handed weapons x 5-6 bolts each) before reloading. Then he'll get slammed with a massive reload time, probably a long rest. I came up with an idea of a crossbow that has a stock and barrel, and then a bow on both the top and bottom of the barrel. I haven't figured out the actual mechanics yet. Somehow shooting the top bow would not only release the bolt, but would also provide the force to draw the bottom bow. So you'd be able to use them in an alternating fashion. Rather than it be an actual perpetual motion machine, I could write in that there's some force loss each time, so that it can only do 3 alternations (to fire 6 bolts) before it must be reset manually. Throw in a revolving chamber or magazine, and you might have something that could theoretically work. |
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Samuel Wise
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Post by Samuel Wise on Oct 22, 2015 4:30:36 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2015 21:37:39 GMT
You might be overthinking it on the design specs. You can just give an existing item the mechanical properties you desire without diving into the details, I.e. Give him a hand crossbow that ignores the Loading property until six shots have been fired. Precisely how it accomplishes this can be a matter of suspension of disbelief. To say that it has a bolt cartridge or something is sufficient.
As for class, the fighter/rogue with alert sounds close enough, though whether it will satisfy the players vision of a gunslinger, I don't know.
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Post by whipstache on Oct 25, 2015 12:38:19 GMT
You might be overthinking it on the design specs. Almost certainly true. My player and I have a long history of getting bogged down in details that may or may not be that important.  Thanks for the advice. |
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Post by friartook on Nov 10, 2015 18:51:02 GMT
dnd-5e-homebrew.tumblr.com/For your perusal sir. Edit: Just realized the link only goes to the blog. There's a Gunslinger Martial Archetype in there somewhere.
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Post by friartook on Dec 17, 2015 19:16:41 GMT
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Post by whipstache on Dec 17, 2015 20:38:02 GMT
Sweet, thanks! I'll definitely check it out. There are a lot of resources out there for gunslinger-type characters, and I'm sure I'll use them if/when my world gets to the point where gunpowder exists. Right now, I think he's settled on a rogue/fighter hybrid, and we're going to homebrew a repeater crossbow that he can hire someone to build once he reaches level 5. |
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, but people are only just sort of figuring out how to use it, and it's very much tied to nature. The martial classes are going to be pretty strictly martial... but throughout the campaign, people around the world will start learning more about magic and how to use it. 
Thanks for the advice.
