|
|
Post by LegendOfZia (formerly DM Phil) on Oct 8, 2015 21:19:24 GMT
All right, this is a question that's been bothering me a bit. I've never been totally clear on the distinction between an "adventure" and a "campaign" in Dungeons and Dragons, so a lot of talk about D&D tends to go over my head. Just recently I listened to the DMB podcast about villains, which I greatly enjoyed, but they kept referring to having villains that last an entire campaign, or are introduced at the start of the campaign, which got me wondering about what, exactly they meant by a campaign in this context.
So, I kind of have two questions wrapped up in one here. Can anyone help me with the distinction between campaigns and adventures? And also, for recurring villains, how long do you usually have them last? Do you usually introduce them when your PCs are in the low levels, and then have them last until the PCs are way up there, or do you have one villain that lasts for one adventure/campaign/storyline that only goes from say, level 1-6, and then you introduce a new villain when the PCs reach level 6?
|
|
|
|
Post by friartook on Oct 9, 2015 4:37:17 GMT
All right, this is a question that's been bothering me a bit. I've never been totally clear on the distinction between an "adventure" and a "campaign" in Dungeons and Dragons, so a lot of talk about D&D tends to go over my head. Just recently I listened to the DMB podcast about villains, which I greatly enjoyed, but they kept referring to having villains that last an entire campaign, or are introduced at the start of the campaign, which got me wondering about what, exactly they meant by a campaign in this context. So, I kind of have two questions wrapped up in one here. Can anyone help me with the distinction between campaigns and adventures? And also, for recurring villains, how long do you usually have them last? Do you usually introduce them when your PCs are in the low levels, and then have them last until the PCs are way up there, or do you have one villain that lasts for one adventure/campaign/storyline that only goes from say, level 1-6, and then you introduce a new villain when the PCs reach level 6? First off, welcome to the forums! Second, you have two very different and very big questions here. I'll address them separately. As to the distinction between "adventures" and "campaign", this is one of those deceptively simple questions without a straightforward answer. But I think I can help clarify. "Adventure" is a sort of generic catch-all term. It is often used to refer to pre-written content put out by companies like Wizards of the Coast or Paizo (think Hoard of the Dragon Queen or the recently release Out of the Abyss). But it can also mean a home brewed adventure or just one part of a larger string of adventures, which brings us to your other term needing definition: "Campaign" is a term denoting a long running continuous narrative that lasts of multiple game sessions, staring the same players playing the same characters (unless someone dies...). They can last for years on end, and frequently do not come to a proper end, but are abandoned for one reason or another (the guys did an episode on this, Ep. 33: Neverending Stories). This term is used to distinguish from One Shot sessions, which tend to be smaller, encapsulated stories that last one or two sessions. The PCs for One Shots are often only used for that one short story, then not used again. They may level up once, or not at all. Although in some cases, a One Shot is just a stand-alone adventure outside the main adventure of a larger Campaign. That all requires further explanation: If these terms are used in the context of pre-written adventure paths (such as Hoard of the Dragon Queen or the D&D Starter Set Adventure: Lost Mines of Phandelver), a One Shot means running an encapsulated adventure. Running the Starter Set with the pre-generated characters included would likely be considered a One Shot. You run the content of the adventure book, then dispose of the characters at the end. Running a book such as Hoard of the Dragon Queen could go either way. Your players would roll new PCs for the HotDQ world (Forgotten Realms in this case), then run the content of the book. At the end, you may dispose of the characters, or you may move forward to further adventures in the Forgotten Realms setting using the same characters. In the latter case, you'd be running a Campaign, in the former, a One Shot. One Shots are also used used sometimes for side adventures in longer Campaigns. For example, perhaps two of your players know they will need to miss two or three sessions in a row. It's tough to run a Campaign story with missing characters. So perhaps you write up a shorter adventure that stars your remaining PCs. Perhaps its a flash-back, or small side adventure they had outside of the main narrative. Or perhaps its a dream or vision sequence. Sometimes a One Shot like this occurs outside of the "canon" of the main adventure and has no effect on the larger context of the game world. Other times, such as a flash-back, it can clear up, clarify, or flesh out past details about the PCs or the game world. Sometimes they are just fun side quests. To sum up, "Adventure" is a generic term for a pre-generated or home brewed story the a DM uses to run the sessions for their players. A "Campaign" is a long running string of Adventures usually starring the same players and characters. And our new term: a One Shot is shorter, self contained Adventure meant to only last a couple of sessions. Hope this clarifies (rather than confuses) the issue. |
|
|
|
Post by friartook on Oct 9, 2015 4:42:23 GMT
And also, for recurring villains, how long do you usually have them last? Do you usually introduce them when your PCs are in the low levels, and then have them last until the PCs are way up there, or do you have one villain that lasts for one adventure/campaign/storyline that only goes from say, level 1-6, and then you introduce a new villain when the PCs reach level 6? The answer to this question is: All of the above. How you handle villains depends very much on the context of your table and the campaign you are running. In general, I like to have multiple big bad villains working for their nefarious goals in the background of the game world. The PCs will likely not meet these villains until much later. Instead they will face various minions and henchmen of these villains as they move about the world. These henchmen just happen to get tougher as the PCs level up, but the big bad guys is usually well beyond them for a long time. Granted, that is mostly theory. In practice, I feel like few campaigns with really powerful big bad guys ever get resolved properly. I assume my PCs will not meet the main villain for a long time, if at all. I just use them as plot drivers; reasons why the smaller, bit-sized villains the PCs encounter are doing what they are doing. Again, hope that helps and clarifies...starting to get groggy...sleeeeeeeeeeep |
|
|
|
Post by LegendOfZia (formerly DM Phil) on Oct 10, 2015 3:34:14 GMT
Thanks for the advice. I wonder if you (or anyone else) could offer me some tips on my current campaign and its villain. I've only done two sessions, and in the first session, I mentioned (almost in passing) that there are some barbarians nearby that have been enlisted to help keep the local gnolls at bay. Unfortunately, the barbarians are crude and somewhat dangerous, so they're no longer allowed in town or on the farmland, which is allowing the gnolls to gain ground.
Basically, I want to use these barbarians, especially their leader (a half-dragon) as overall villains. Their interest in the party's town is that of raiders/slavers, they're just waiting for the right moment to strike. They're already sending captured gnolls south to the main body of their clan.
I'm planning this storyline as part of a longer one. My current plan was to have the party defeat the barbarian warlord relatively soon, like around level 5 or 6, and then introduce a new storyline with new villains and challenges. I know there's no "right" or "wrong" in D&D, but I don't know if my approach is common, or if I should make Kredyrnax (the warlord) more powerful and have him as a longer-running villain.
I have a lot more story planned, much of which doesn't necessarily revolve around a barbarian invasion. Eventually this is going to turn into a more high-fantasy plane-hopping campaign and I'm not sure I see the barbarian warlord being a good fit for that as a villain.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2015 4:56:06 GMT
Friartook covered the definitions for campaign and adventure pretty well, but I want to add that the definitions will vary a bit by player and system. Generally speaking, I define these terms as part of a narrative structure consisting of the following elements:
Actions: The moment to moment decisions that characters make.
Encounter: A period of time that encompasses all actions by participants in a scene. Each encounter has a beginning, middle, and end. The beginning establishes how the actors arrived at their present time and location, and the general circumstances surrounding their arrival. The middle consists of all the actions taken by the actors within that scene. The end resolves those actions, and segues to the next scene.
Adventure: A series of encounters. Like the encounter, an adventure has a beginning, middle, and end, but the scale is larger. The beginning of an adventure introduces the main cast (the PCs) as well as some (but certainly not all!) important supporting cast (NPCs). Often, but not always, the beginning establishes the general tone of the story about to unfold, while the middle is the meat of the story. The end brings that story to a conclusion. In my opinion, an adventure should feel satisfactory as a self-contained short story. If the adventure is not followed by another adventure featuring roughly the same cast and setting, it's often described as a one-shot.
Campaign: A series of adventures. Again, we have a beginning, middle, and end, and the scale increase more. Each adventure may feel like a chapter in a novel, and taken in sequence, they build to a climactic resolution, ending the campaign. Once the campaign ends, the story is over. That doesn't mean the characters or the world are over, just that the story has been told. A campaign might just be the first in a series of campaigns. TRPGs don't usually distinguish what constitutes a series of campaigns, though a PC survivor of multiple campaigns certainly has a sweeping "saga" to share, and that's the term I would use if we are to use any term at all.
To draw out the novel analogy, the Harry Potter series is a saga. Any given book is a campaign. Any given chapter is an adventure. The significant events in a chapter are the encounters. It's not a perfect analogy for TRPG narratives, as an adventure tends to contain many more encounters than a literary chapter contain scenes, but the structure is about the same.
---
To answer your latest question, I must pose a few. Do you think Kredyrnax is a good candidate for a long term villain? Do you think your players will find him interesting? Will he inspire fear in them, or is he just a road bump on their way to glory? You say you're planning to have the PCs defeat him soon. What will you do if they defeat him super hard, and you'd really have to reach for him to make another appearance? e.g. they reduce his body to ashes.
The point of this line of questioning is to remind you that players can ruin long term plans in a heartbeat. It happens all the time, and I've learned to treat it as awesome rather than disappointing. Given player penchants for dashing my plans, I'm careful about exposing my BBEG to player interaction until I'm also comfortable with removing him from play entirely.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2015 5:09:08 GMT
An addendum, since I apparently skimmed over the last part... If the end goal is plane-hopping stuff, you could use Kredyrnax as the agent of a greater evil. His defeat sounds like it would bring a satisfactory end to a level 1-5 adventure, but whether his misdeeds were part of a larger plot is really up to you. How common it is to run it like you're planning? ... hard to say, but it's certainly not rare.
My suggestion is that they encounter him very soon after reaching level 5 (that is, don't wait for 6). In the transition from level 4 to 5, PCs almost double in power. It was jarring to me, as a DM, the first time I was designing encounters around that transition.
|
|
|
|
Post by LegendOfZia (formerly DM Phil) on Oct 11, 2015 4:37:32 GMT
Yeah, when I say, "defeat" Kredyrnax, I definitely mean that at that point, it'll be acceptable to kill him. And his appearance/war efforts are definitely supposed to be a symptom of a larger problem--a problem that will grow in scope as the game goes on. Basically, the entire cosmology of the world is about to undergo an "upheaval" which is a time, in this world, where the balances of power shift dramatically and can only be stopped by the destruction of a specific monolith located *somewhere* in the cosmology. During upheavals, portals between planes are common, as are entire chunks of planes being swapped for one another (for example, a block in a town might vanish and be replaced with an equally sized piece of the abyss).
I haven't decided on whether or not Kredyrnax has any stake in the upheaval or the interplanar stuff, but I think his father, a true red dragon, will. And his father will most definitely be a larger-scale threat for the PCs later in the campaign. But, as you said--and as my signature says--I should be careful with how much future planning I do. Players are as likely to destroy or bypass them as they are to engage them.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2015 5:33:29 GMT
Ha, hadn't even noticed the sig! Sounds like you've got a pretty good grasp on things. I like the idea of the dragon daddy making an appearance later. It would be especially dramatic if he appeared just after they defeat Kred. Maybe once the party has put a little distance between themselves and the body, they see the massive red dragon flying overhead (oblivious to them), land near Kredyrnax, and let out a furious, flame spewing roar. Let the PCs know they've made a powerful enemy!
|
|
|
|
Post by joatmoniac on Oct 12, 2015 7:11:19 GMT
After saying "high-fantasy plane-hopping" all bets are off, haha. There is nothing the players can do at that point that you couldn't undo, or work with/into your story. I think that allowing the group to defeat Kredyrnax soon could work well. I would have it be a tough fight and hopefully one where he does something memorable. Could be a special move, or something truly intimidating/terrifying when he hits one of the players. Having an old/ancient red dragon being the one pulling the strings is also a great idea. Also, since you are potentially having pieces of this plane move to another, it could be awesome to have the piece of the material plane that has Kredyrnax's body on it move into a place of undeath or anything else you could come up with. Then he could be infused with the power of the new plane, and then beef up and be ready to give the players a run for their money again.
|
|
