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Post by sparkusclark on Sept 28, 2017 15:23:32 GMT
In trying to bring some extra creep factor to my upcoming Curse of Strahd campaign, I'm leaving open the possibility that a character is already dead and doesn't know it. Basicaly I'm porting over the idea of the Harrowed from Deadlands. I'm just wondering how not to make this character too OP.
Here's the 5e Revenant Powers, and a few changes I've already made:
-Regen 10hp
-Rejuvinate after 24hr if enough of body is intact.
-Vengeful Tracker
-No air, food, water, or sleep needed.
- Vengeful Glare
- DMG Resist: Necrotic, Psychic
- DMG Immunities: Poison
- Condition Immunities: Turn Undead, Exhaustion, Poisoned, Non-magical stun
Here a list of Harrowed abilities from Deadlands with some 5e twists added to a few:
-Decay: unless constantly drinking, other characters have adv. on Perception checks involving smell to detect you and your undeath.
-Still Standing: can act even when making death saves
-Drugs & Alcohol have no effect (by which theory means potions won't work)
-Healing: Here's where I throw in some consequences of being an undead hero. Magic can heal them, but a long rest cannont. During a long rest they must use any remaining HD from the day to heal (before earning HD from a long rest) and they may only do this if they have consumed fresh meat beforehand.
There's also a list of powers a Harrowed can earn:
-Cat's Eyes
-Incorporeal
-Soul Eater
-Stitching
-Superior Ability
It's easy to see how, with class and race abilities stacked ontop, a Harrowed/Revenant PC can become super OP super fast. I figure that my options are to grant several effects during character creation, and then add a few more as the character levels up. Or add a few that make sense, and then use the Harrowed's 'Counting Coup' ability to grant powers and abilities.*
What say you?
*Counting Coup gives the PC abilities when they defeat certain monsters.
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Post by randosaurus on Sept 29, 2017 6:11:11 GMT
Here is the thing with monstrous PCs. Monsters have many abilities that make it challenging in a single encounter, but would be game-breaking for a PC. Regeneration & Spontaneous Resurrection are 2 such hallmark abilities. I used some old 3.0 rules from Savage Species to estimate level adjustments for your stack of abilities: -Regen 10hp (+2 LA Regeneration, +4 LA Fast Healing) -Rejuvinate after 24hr if enough of body is intact. (+1 LA, similar to Outsider durability) -Vengeful Tracker (+1 LA special ability) -No air, food, water, or sleep needed. (+1 LA special ability) - Vengeful Glare (+1 LA Special ability) - DMG Resist: Necrotic, Psychic (+1 for 2 resistances) - DMG Immunities: Poison (+2 LA for immunity) - Condition Immunities: Turn Undead (+1 LA), Exhaustion (+1 LA), Poisoned (covered in immunity), Non-magical stun (covered in Regeneration) -Decay: unless constantly drinking, other characters have adv. on Perception checks involving smell to detect you and your undeath. (-1 LA) -Still Standing: can act even when making death saves (+1 LA feat-like) -Drugs & Alcohol have no effect (by which theory means potions won't work) (-1 LA) -Healing: Special rules. (-2 LA) The above abilities, when imbued in a PC, account for maybe a +12 Level adjustment. That is to say, a 1st level revenant ranger would be considered a 13th level character. So yes, overpowered. You may find that the above abilities account for less than 12 levels of equivalent power, but the notion that you can assign monster abilities to PCs is not new; we simply require such a character to gain more XP to achieve another level. In this example, to achieve a 2nd level of ranger, that PC would need to earn as much experience as would move her from 13th to 14th. I wouldn't say this notion is impossible, just in need of rework. For starters, Regenerate and Rejuvenate are game-breaking. There is no way for a careful PC to die in any meaningful way if they have these. I might be confused about your healing rules, but it seems like Regenerate would completely recover the PC of damage and it wouldn't even come up. As far as healing undead, this is D&D, so this has always been possible with the application of negative energy. I wouldn't make positive divine energy work, the handicap already exists where the revenant needs an evil cleric to recover. What I would do if you really wanted to keep the regen/rejuven/special heal rules is lean heavily into the 'consumption of fresh meat' angle. That is to say, make it so the PC can regenerate but has to consume a truly remarkable amount of flesh for it to work. Vengeful Tracker, Vengeful Glare are fine for an abilities. These are comparable to class skills, which typically are awarded only one per character level. -No air, food, water, or sleep needed / DMG Resist: Necrotic, Psychic / DMG Immunities: Poison / Condition Immunities: Turn Undead, Exhaustion, Poisoned, Non-magical stun... these are all qualities conferred when a creature becomes the undead version of the creature. In previous editions, there were 'templates' such as 'Zombie' or 'Phantom' that could be added to a creature that would confer these sorts of stats. I think templates didn't get included in 5e because they are, honestly, complicated. I think more could be done to balance the above; there are no undead weaknesses, like vulnerability to fire. Personally I would leave vulnerability to turning, because I think it would be enjoyable to have a PC roleplay being 'turned' away. Drug/Alcohol insensitivity applying to potions is an interesting dimension, but if they don't have a working metabolism why do they crave flesh? How do they digest? Are they consuming spirit or vitality of the creature? I don't want to tell you to have them crave BRAAAAAAAAINS but honestly, it's an option. Decay- Now this has possibilities. Detection and roleplay implications are minor consequences for what seems to be the ongoing decomposition of the character. If you are worried about OP, consider progressive penalties. What do I mean-- suppose that damage caused by a vulnerable source, such as fire, cannot be regenerated but also cannot be healed. There is not the vitality of a living creature to recover; he's decaying too much. This could mean that Fire damage could have a lasting impact like ability damage to constitution, strength or dexterity. This ability damage could be persistent even if the HP damage is recovered. In this manner, the revenant is most powered when fresh, but as it adventures and is minced to pieces, put back together, burned, dissolved, etc., it accrues more and more CON penalties. In this way, it can still regenerate like mad but it's more prone to being knocked out or out of commission until the next day. This is a general idea I've been trying to implement, where a character has maximum power to start, but through use and wear and adventure her abilities diminish and the player's creativity and cunning needs to make up for in-game penalties. The one thing about making monsters into PCs, is there has never really been solid rules for how to do so in D&D. Just some things to consider. |
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Post by sparkusclark on Sept 30, 2017 3:19:32 GMT
Here is the thing with monstrous PCs. Monsters have many abilities that make it challenging in a single encounter, but would be game-breaking for a PC. I wouldn't say this notion is impossible, just in need of rework. For starters, Regenerate and Rejuvenate are game-breaking. There is no way for a careful PC to die in any meaningful way if they have these. I might be confused about your healing rules, but it seems like Regenerate would completely recover the PC of damage and it wouldn't even come up. As far as healing undead, this is D&D, so this has always been possible with the application of negative energy. I wouldn't make positive divine energy work, the handicap already exists where the revenant needs an evil cleric to recover. What I would do if you really wanted to keep the regen/rejuven/special heal rules is lean heavily into the 'consumption of fresh meat' angle. That is to say, make it so the PC can regenerate but has to consume a truly remarkable amount of flesh for it to work. -No air, food, water, or sleep needed / DMG Resist: Necrotic, Psychic / DMG Immunities: Poison / Condition Immunities: Turn Undead, Exhaustion, Poisoned, Non-magical stun... these are all qualities conferred when a creature becomes the undead version of the creature. In previous editions, there were 'templates' such as 'Zombie' or 'Phantom' that could be added to a creature that would confer these sorts of stats. I think templates didn't get included in 5e because they are, honestly, complicated. I think more could be done to balance the above; there are no undead weaknesses, like vulnerability to fire. Personally I would leave vulnerability to turning, because I think it would be enjoyable to have a PC roleplay being 'turned' away. Drug/Alcohol insensitivity applying to potions is an interesting dimension, but if they don't have a working metabolism why do they crave flesh? How do they digest? Are they consuming spirit or vitality of the creature? I don't want to tell you to have them crave BRAAAAAAAAINS but honestly, it's an option. Decay- Now this has possibilities. Detection and roleplay implications are minor consequences for what seems to be the ongoing decomposition of the character. If you are worried about OP, consider progressive penalties. What do I mean-- suppose that damage caused by a vulnerable source, such as fire, cannot be regenerated but also cannot be healed. There is not the vitality of a living creature to recover; he's decaying too much. This could mean that Fire damage could have a lasting impact like ability damage to constitution, strength or dexterity. This ability damage could be persistent even if the HP damage is recovered. In this manner, the revenant is most powered when fresh, but as it adventures and is minced to pieces, put back together, burned, dissolved, etc., it accrues more and more CON penalties. In this way, it can still regenerate like mad but it's more prone to being knocked out or out of commission until the next day. This is a general idea I've been trying to implement, where a character has maximum power to start, but through use and wear and adventure her abilities diminish and the player's creativity and cunning needs to make up for in-game penalties. The one thing about making monsters into PCs, is there has never really been solid rules for how to do so in D&D. Just some things to consider. Alright, so I took this into account and came up with a different take: 1. They aren't Revenants, I'll come up with a new name later, but something that doesn't link it directly to the MM entry. Also, Revs are powered by vengence, and these will be more in line with the Harrowed (i.e. Demon-powered*). 2. since this effect is part of a blind draw during character creation, half the fun is the PC not knowing and having to figure out wtf is going on with them. 3. Things to Keep: -Decay
-Regen 10hp, but only from wounds given by somone who'd killed them previously
-Rejuvination, 24hours after they die, if enough of their body is intact, they get back up. However it has poor effects on their battle with the demon.
-No air, food, sleep, or drink is needed. But they don't need to know that right off the bat (slow descent into the 'what-am-I??' plotline)
-Still Standing: Can stay on their feet, even when making death saves, but taking actions causes disadvantage on Death Saves.
-Drugs, Alcohol, Potions Don't Work. But Alcohol can help stave off Decay.
-Can only heal during a long rest if fresh meat has been consummed during the day, otherwise HD used only. Also, the fresh meat is important because it's what powers the Demon.
-DMG Resist: Necro
-DMG Immune: Poison
-DMG Vulenrability: Fire
-Condition Immunity: Exhausted, Poisoned, Nonmagical Stun.
4. The Demon: Yeah that little thing that wormed its way into your dead noggin and got you up and on your feet has some chaotic plans. The PC won't know this fact, and will wonder what the heck is going on at first. Once or twice a game** the PC makes a WIS Save/Check vs. the Demon's Save/Check. The struggle is represented by a three-part clock. PC loses, the clock is increased one tick. PC wins, the clock is decreased one tick.
-No ticks: PC in total control
-One tick: Demon starts whispering in their mind. May even cause hallucinations to lead the PC astray.
-Two ticks: PC keeps loosing moments or taking actions they did not mean to.
-Three ticks: Demon in total control. DM plays PC, or Player plays Demon pretending to be PC.*In Deadlands a Harrowed has a demon living in their head. It keeps them "alive", but at the cost of constant tests of will and control. **Or once per long rest, but I like to have long periods of downtime, so 1 or 2 per game works better for me. |
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