Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2016 19:34:58 GMT
I've been talking to a friend about world building off and on for a couple years now, as we've both been engaged in some long term projects and like to bounce our ideas off each other. One of our recent discussions revealed a principle I think we both intuitively knew for awhile, but hadn't formalized into words yet. I realized this has been touched upon in these very forums, but always in relation to specific issues. My point in repeating it is to generalize.
The effort that goes into world building is subject to diminishing returns, where the returns are player appreciation and buy-in.
Players and GMs alike are going to recognize the difference between a 70% and 90% "complete" world. It may very well take just as much effort to raise that 90% to a 95%, and that difference isn't going to matter so much to the players. Think of player appreciation as the grade on a report card. 90% and 95% are both As. This isn't to say there aren't other reasons to work toward 95% and above, only that GMs ought to recognize "good enough" before their labor of love turns into just plain labor.
|
|
|
Post by friartook on Apr 19, 2016 21:59:11 GMT
The effort that goes into world building is subject to diminishing returns, where the returns are player appreciation and buy-in. This is a nice succinct way to quantify a vague but real concern for GMs building their own worlds. One has to find that sweet spot where the world feel fleshed out, but there's still room for the players to have an affect on the world at large. As I'm (slowly) outlining in my World In Progress thread, my group and I are experimenting with a more collaborative approach to world building. I have laid out the general themes, flavor, "historic" time frame, and general makeup of the world, my players are helping to fill in details. This has taken some of the burden off me and kept me from setting myself up for disappointment when my players just don't care about all the careful detail in my world. In our last D&D campaign, I had this massive world concept that the players barely brushed up against, and really didn't seem to care about when they did. For this campaign, I have set up the state of the world at large, and I am turning to them to fill in the details. So far, I couldn't be happier with the results. They've already stiff-armed some of the story ideas I had and provided me with new ideas I hadn't thought of. By turning to them to help build the world, I've gotten a better idea of which aspects of my concept speak to them. I plan to latch on to those pieces and push to see what develops. Allowing this has already built in a strong foundation of engagement with their characters too. They each seem very enthused by their concepts.
|
|
|
Post by joatmoniac on Apr 19, 2016 22:18:40 GMT
It is a great analogy that could, and should, be applied to many aspects in life, but that is a soapbox for another time. I think the percentage based example works amazingly well here too, especially once we start talking about the grades associated with the percentages. If 90% is an A and 95% is an A what's, as you said there are reasons to work towards the 95%, and I think it is the players that really set the tone of what % is needed. The Worldbuilding 101 (to play into the analogy further) could be a simple pass/fail situation for the players at your table, and 70% is just fine, but 50% won't cut it. On the other hand you could be in Worldbuilding Thesis Manifesto Magnum Opus 700 and the players at your table want an experience as rich and developed as stepping our their own front door then even 95% may not cut it at every play session. Great thoughts, and thank you for bringing them up in a more generalized manner. Time to find the "C's get degrees" line with my players, haha!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2016 9:15:19 GMT
friartook , I'm glad it's working out well for you. I've tried with groups in the past, and it's never been an opportunity my players have leapt at. Their reactions vary: "I don't really have time to think this stuff up." "Nah, I'm happy just to play and be surprised." "I don't want to mess the world up." "Totally! I'll have something for you next week!" (followed by nothing, even after bringing it up multiple times, until "Eh, I'm not happy with what I came up with, nevermind.") In one group where I was a player and the DM invited us to help create the world, I offered up plenty of material... that never got used. We had plenty of fun while the group lasted, but our adventures never delivered us to those lands. joatmoniac , it is indeed a lesson for life in general, and one I'm still trying to learn. Intellectually, it's easy enough to grasp. Actually getting over a long-standing tendency for perfectionism is much harder! I anticipate I'll have around 200 pages of material by the time I'm done. However, the "returns" I'm ultimately looking for extend beyond my own table, hence all the extra effort. It's a campaign setting I hope will be attractive enough for other people to run, comparable in scope to the campaign setting books for Faerun, Eberron, Krynn, etc. This isn't my magnum opus of creative writing, but it's definitely a big project.
|
|
|
Post by friartook on Apr 20, 2016 14:02:15 GMT
"I don't really have time to think this stuff up." "Nah, I'm happy just to play and be surprised." "I don't want to mess the world up." "Totally! I'll have something for you next week!" (followed by nothing, even after bringing it up multiple times, until "Eh, I'm not happy with what I came up with, nevermind.") This is what I expected, but my players surprised me by being very engaged with my idea and bringing their own ideas into the mix. Frankly, their engagement has been flattering and heart warming. I knew they enjoyed my GMing and our games, but the level to which they are choosing to engage in this campaign is beyond the call of player duty.
|
|