Samuel Wise
Demigod
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Posts: 989
Favorite D&D Class: Warlock
Favorite D&D Race: Mousefolk
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Post by Samuel Wise on Mar 6, 2015 13:42:54 GMT
How would you convince someone to play D&D or any other type of RPG? Many people have a negative view on role playing games. How would you convince these people to give rpg's and D&D a try? Or should you only play with people who are at the very least interested in the hobby?
The most common objections to roleplaying are: 1.) Role playing is just 'pretending' and therefore childish. 2.) Role playing has a bad community. And 3.) Role playing is an "insult to intelligence".
Just was wondering what your guys thought of these and what were your opinions were on this subject.
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Post by friartook on Mar 6, 2015 17:26:19 GMT
I have found that most people have a preconceived notion of what "role playing games" entail that is negative for no specific reason at all. I've got friends who love fantasy literature and movies, but scoff when I ask about D&D. They usually don't have a good or specific reason for their disdain. If the person is naturally closed minded, then you are usually SOL. If they are naturally open minded, you can usually convince them that its just another game, no different from a scrabble night or a poker night, but that doesn't mean they will want to play.
A couple guys in my group were downright embarrassed to have it known they were meeting for a D&D night. They have embraced it now; after a year of playing, they have seen how cool it is, and are now showing some defiant (and defensive) pride. One guy even told a new girl he was dating that he couldn't hang out because he had D&D to go to. That's dedication right there! Those of us with committed relationships can afford to be a little defiant, but to play that card in a budding relationship? Brave.
Speaking of women, I have found the biggest gap to be gender based. Many women dislike the idea of RPGs on a level bordering on revulsion. I haven't had a single female in a group (excepting my partner, who participated in our son's adventure when he DMed for us). I also have not noticed a female voice here on the forums (if you're a lady DM and I haven't noticed, please accept my apologies and make yourself known). I find this disheartening, and I think the sexism in gaming culture is making this dynamic worse. Why this is the case has been analyzed to death in blogs and such, so I will not attempt to do so here. But I do think this dynamic is a serious issue that is holding back table top roleplaying from becoming more mainstream.
I had to train my group to roleplay. None of them had ever participated in an RPG outside of a video game. I found the biggest obstacle to, in fact, be video games. Games like Skyrim and GTA can foster a sociopathic approach to roleplaying. There are really no consequences in Skyrim if you kill an entire town. I've done it myself; turned into a werewolf and rampaged Whiterun. It was super fun! But then I went back to a previous save and undid my murderous rampage. There's no "checkpoints" in a well done D&D campaign. Your actions have consequences, and they cannot be undone. There were some rough "teachable moments" in the early days of our group.
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Post by joatmoniac on Mar 6, 2015 19:03:43 GMT
I assume that you are asking this with certain people in mind almarianknight? If not then there are tons of resources that can be used to get players. Local gaming store, local college, local library, websites, or even classifieds. Continuing with the assumption that you are looking at specific people then you can tailor your game, or your gaming pitch to those people. Given that people often have very ambiguous fears and hesitations about role playing being "bad" you will likely be tasked with digging further to figure out their reasons. Your best tool for bringing people in, to me, is explaining that the game has no limits and can be whatever the group wants it to be.
For those that think the game is too childish, I would ask if they watch TV, or go to the movies, or read books, etc. The main difference between those forms of entertainment and this is that you are allowed an active voice in the story that is unfolding. The complexity and depth of the game falls to the DM and the players. If you wanted to run the Flufflekins d20 system, then yeah that probably will be childish. If instead you have the players in a war torn world where they constantly have to make moral decisions to survive and succeed it is something entirely different. I think that number three plays into this as well, and the complexities of both the rules side of the games as well as the out of combat scenarios could help to alleviate those fears.
For number 2, I can't completely disagree. As friartook mentioned it is male dominated, but that is not just role playing games, sadly it is games in general. Even still the community has been crapped on for the better part of 30 years, and people become defensive of what they love. I personally have been shunned in a store, for what I assumed was not looking like a typical role player. Side note: that was after years of playing and was one of the weirdest experiences of my entire life. I know that Pathfinder is good about promoting inclusion of all people to try and create a better community, and it is awesome to see that. Admittedly though if it is a true stumbling block for someone they need not see a single person of said community in this day and age. They can get any gaming item they need online, and show up to the games and essentially have their community be the gaming group they are a part of.
This is an awesome question for newer DMs who are trying to get a group together, and hopefully the information that is in this thread helps people!
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Samuel Wise
Demigod
Ready to Help...
Posts: 989
Favorite D&D Class: Warlock
Favorite D&D Race: Mousefolk
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Post by Samuel Wise on Mar 7, 2015 0:04:46 GMT
Number three was a sort of combination of the previous two arguments. The main problem with the "childish" argument is not that the genre is childish, but roleplaying itself. I think it would be fine if it was just like Zork, but how can you prove to someone that roleplaying itself is not childish. Only children (in their minds) pretend to be something they are not. The second reason is what kept me from D&D, which is really funny since I got into Warhammer. Many people I know have purchased a Warhammer product here or there so I think refuting the second reason will not be a problem. Also, realize I have not asked too many people to try D&D, but I would like to be ready to give them a good reason to try the game.
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Post by dm_mainprize on Mar 10, 2015 22:31:42 GMT
I love D&D for its story-telling purposes. When I talk to people who D&D as either being a childish dumb hobby or or some weird basement nerd fest, I simply explain that I play it for the stories. To me its more an exercise in communal story-telling and shared exploration of the nature of being as opposed to neck beards and children playing with dice. I lived in Mozambique for a time, and that country has had it stories art and culture shredded by years loving as a colony followed by years of being a soviet puppet state followed by a long civil war. The people there struggle to move forward because they have no past. They have no stories or identity to use as a platform for growth. Only by knowing where they are from can they tell you where they are going. So to me D&D is about telling stories about who we are and where we are from. The words and language of the story is fantastical and magical in nature but that doesn't mean the stories themselves aren't real and have no value. So Thats how I talk to people who are anti D&D or simply want to know what it is. So far I have only had positive responses. Everybody loves a good story.
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Post by friartook on Mar 10, 2015 23:13:20 GMT
To me its more an exercise in communal story-telling and shared exploration of the nature of being This. Yup. "All stories are real, but this one really happened if that's what you mean."-Skarpi (From The Name of the Wind by Patrick Rothfuss)
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Post by joatmoniac on Mar 11, 2015 3:19:09 GMT
Almarianknight, just print out Dmmainprize's response and carry it around with you. Have anyone that is anti-role playing read it, and if they are still anti-role playing get a new friend! Also, Friartook that quote is awesome, and definitely needs to be an inspirational poster in the office of every writer.
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Samuel Wise
Demigod
Ready to Help...
Posts: 989
Favorite D&D Class: Warlock
Favorite D&D Race: Mousefolk
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Post by Samuel Wise on Mar 11, 2015 3:33:24 GMT
Almarianknight, just print out Dmmainprize's response and carry it around with you. Have anyone that is anti-role playing read it, and if they are still anti-role playing get a new friend! I know! My first thoughts after reading his post was: "he makes it sound more like an art, then a hobby". Dang, I can imagine that you would get positive responses after a quote like that.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2015 4:56:19 GMT
The social stigma of RPGs is going away. Incidentally, I think we have the explosion in popularity of video games to thank for this. It can be irritating when people bring a video game mentality to a TTRPG, but it's correctable.
I like Mainprize's emphasis on the storytelling aspect of RPGs, but I think it gives an easy out for people who doubt their own creative abilities, and those who don't care about creativity at all.
My opening pitch to persuade someone to play is... "It's basically a board game."
Damn near every man, woman and child in America has played a board game, so it establishes common ground. If they hate board games, they probably won't like RPG's anyway. Convincing this person to try playing is an uphill battle, and honestly, I don't invest as much effort into persuading him. It's not impossible, I just don't have any good advice there.
If I haven't lost someone at 'board games,' I'll talk about popular media with fantasy elements, whether its books, film, or video games, to figure out what they like. I imply they'll be able to recreate their favorite scenes, and give a brief mention of rolling dice to determine outcomes. I also emphasize the social aspect of hanging out with friends.
I use the phrase, "You play a character..." but I rarely talk much about the acting side of RPGs until they're at the table and we've already started on character creation. People think acting, they think of getting on a stage in front of others. Most people are more afraid of public speaking than they are of dying in a fire.
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Post by TaranWanderer on Mar 19, 2015 18:20:46 GMT
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Post by DMC on Mar 19, 2015 18:52:00 GMT
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Post by joatmoniac on Mar 19, 2015 21:04:57 GMT
This is not what I needed in my life right now! Haha. Too much good stuff, haha. At least two hours of content a week, and it just started, so perfect time to jump on, curses! Haha.
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Post by joatmoniac on Mar 19, 2015 21:05:27 GMT
I love this video, and wish it was much longer.
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Post by dm_mainprize on Mar 19, 2015 22:47:49 GMT
Key and Peele classic. Their best sketches are the ones about Liam Neesons. If you havent seen them go find them now.
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