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Post by joatmoniac on Mar 12, 2016 9:18:20 GMT
While this week's podcast was awesome it doesn't lend itself quite as well to a DM-Nastics that could build up the world of Dayeimbe, but I think it can help get the creative juices flowing, and give a little more insight to each other as DMs. Take the poll and lets see what we lean towards as a group in terms of Story-Telling Type.
From there I think a great exercise is to think of ways that we have been successful at player influenced storytelling, or how we have been unsuccessful at it. So here are a few questions that hopefully will spark some great conversation about player influenced storytelling in a way that we can share and learn from each other. Grab one, grab them all, whatever sparks your interest!
1. What was the most successful use of player influenced storytelling that you have experienced?
2. What was the least successful use of player influenced storytelling that you have experienced?
3. What is an example scenario other DMs could use to promote player influenced storytelling?
4. What are the untouchables in your campaign that the players can't influence?
Hopefully those do the trick! If not though, and there is a question you would want to pose to the Block Party definitely do so!
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Post by joatmoniac on Mar 14, 2016 8:33:23 GMT
I think my 1 and 2 have already been said on the podcast, but figured that they could help spur the conversation. 1. I had one of the first goblins in the 5e Starter Set get taken prisoner by the group because they purposefully made sure he didn't die. He helped them with the traps on the way to the first cave with Klarg inside. He did a great job, and they were fairly nice to him, so he started to Stockholm like a champion, and wanted to stay with them. He even helped them sneak through the cave by saying things "No, it's just me Mugmurch!" Eventually he made another goblin they tried to recruit (I think the one that actually wanted to stay with the group per the starter set. He started training under the players and was set to gain class levels eventually, but alas that group split after some moved. 2. The owlbear baby story: I had the group roll random encounter, BAM owlbear! but they were too low level. The cleric immediately ran as fast as possible. The rest of the party stayed to see what could be done, and through some good tactics and even better rolls they bested the owlbear. They decided to attempt to track it down to its lair because obviously there should be treasure there! After some increasingly difficult Survival checks (which were absolutely blown away) they arrive at the cave entrance, and I think someone mentioned that are there babies in there? Sure why not? In hindsight I should have said no to that, and just let there be treasure. After some quick Google Fu I find out that Owlbears could have 1 to 6 babies, and why I even looked that up? Don't know, why I rolled that d6 in the open? Couldn't tell you. What did it roll? Oh you already know! A SIX of course! Haha. So they managed to wrangle them all up, and sell them back to the town one way or another. Gave them a bit more magic up front, but that means more tough enemies and less magic to worry about for now. Also, I found this mortifying creature that will eventually have to come into play I think www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/magical-beasts/owlbear/owlbear-siege |
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Post by galakan on Mar 14, 2016 16:37:00 GMT
So some of the examples I am going to use are from my future setting campaign so I am going to signify the difference by [SCI] and [FAN] just so it's easier to follow
1. [SCI] - So in my session I had the players encounter a sentient cloud of space gas. It was this giant red cloud that just floated in space and trapped ships in itself to prey upon them. Well MY idea was to have the players go through a dungeon and eventually fight the cloud after it bound itself to an NPC that it was trying to feed off of and kill it. Well my players were not feeling the combat mood, so they decided to fight this thing with crafting items to outsmart it. Through some amazing rolls and quick thinking they managed to bind the cloud to a robot they created and managed to make one of the best long-lasting NPCs I had ever made. It was something I thought was going to be a one and done night that made an unexpected character that lasted for years. Those moments are why I do this really, so it will always be one of my favorite things to look back on.
2. [SCI] - So one night my players had been coming off of a rough week. I setup this really cool story with this farming planet and laid out this whole mystery to get them to go through. Well the players WERE pirates...so their solution to my mystery was to just get mad at the people who asked for help and fly around the planet torching the fields. While it was totally in character for them to do it, it was super frustrating when the players unanimously decided to ignore my story and just pirate it up.
3. [FAN] - One situation I really liked putting my players in was to have to make a deal with a demon to get past some greater evil. It is a dilemma that causes players to engage themselves in weighing the consequences and determine the outcome what happens. Plus if they can find a way around making the deal and still get past the greater evil unscathed then it means they really put thought into it and were engaged. So win-win there.
Additionally (not a situation) but I have found that having your players name certain types of things (I usually leave taverns or guilds to them) can cause some awesome cooperative storytelling moments and can even lead to them getting into part of the world building.
4. [FAN] - For me the untouchables are specific NPCs or deities. I allow them to change events and outcomes, but regardless of what they do certain NPCs will still exist and the deities are constant. I do this mostly so that if I play multiple campaigns with multiple groups, there are consistent names that trigger a response from the players who have played in the setting before. I play with the mindset of having a multi-verse that players can spawn different dimensions in based on their choices. So they have pretty much free reign, however I have specific NPCs to act as grounding constants they can relate back to.
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Post by dmgenisisect on Mar 15, 2016 3:41:58 GMT
1. What was the most successful use of player influenced storytelling that you have experienced?
My main campaign is pretty much completely improvised and I like to think it's pretty successful. My favourite example though is when my party filled an entire session with some inter party conflict.
2. What was the least successful use of player influenced storytelling that you have experienced?
Their are times where the story stagnated, especially in the beginning. I had to 'knudge' them in a particular direction just to get them going.
3. What is an example scenario other DMs could use to promote player influenced storytelling?
I'm not really sure what to say here, though I guess I'll note that even though I improvise everything that doesn't mean you don't have control over the circumstances. My favourite way to start is to provide a scene which limits the characters options, where their goal is to escape those limitations. It really helps the PCs over come the 'infinite choices' that improvised sessions bring about. Also I do plan set pieces, just not how those set pieces will appear.
4. What are the untouchables in your campaign that the players can't influence?
I keep a few NPCs as, in my mind, untouchable. But they are untouchable only because the PCs cannot access them.
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DM Rowan
Adventurer
The DM Renaissance is in full swing!
Posts: 96
Favorite D&D Class: Bard/Paladin
Favorite D&D Race: Half Elf
Gender: NB Lesbian
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Post by DM Rowan on Mar 15, 2016 9:58:47 GMT
I don't have a lot of experience DMing (or more accurately, me and my friends can never meet), but I have some plans that I think sound fun.
I have an NPC named Orinthal, a wood elf rogue who will accompany the party on a quest for a reason I'll determine when I know what quest he's coming on.
Either way, one of my PCs is a high elf sorceress named Gwedhiel who has a charlatan background. I plan for Orinthal to instantly fall in love with her and I expect she'll lead him on in order to get stuff out of him. As he accompanies them on the quest, they find themselves in the woods nearest the fey wild. In his devotion to Gwedhiel, Orinthal offers to take watch or scout out and doesn't sleep, thus taking a level of exhaustion. The next day, they progress closer to their quest and he offers to scout ahead again. Suddenly, they are attacked by Displacer Beasts and I plan to kill Orinthal.
Now if the PCs are creative enough or care enough to get him resurrected, I'll let it be, but otherwise I have plans - based on an episode of the DMB that I can't remember - for him to come back with a level of warlock after being convinced by a demon/devil to seek revenge for reasons that I haven't figured out yet on the demon's behalf.
Whaddya think?
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Post by Tesla Ranger on Mar 15, 2016 16:43:54 GMT
1) I'd have a hard time picking. I mostly employ a Multi-linear style (I like to compare it to any of the Bioware games) but I try to keep my ear open for what the players are interested in. If they latch onto something I'll focus on it at the next available opportunity (or just wing it). But then they pull out non sequitors that I never saw coming.
For some reason my players are really fixated on safety equipment. I give them a ship and their first question is "where's the life boat?". They uncover an airship and they immediately want parachutes and safety harnesses. It seems kind of odd to me for a group who's profession is inherently risky but we've had some fun figuring out where they get their safety equipment and how it gets repurposed to other things.
Beyond that I came up with a mechanic for one of our players to develop his own spells for his Wizard. That could have just gone nowhere but it's become a pretty entertaining aspect of the PC. Particularly since he has to experiment to discover a spell and I get to invent all the weird, wacky results of those experiments! XD
4) I usually have a cast of characters that are so much more powerful than the PCs that there isn't much the PCs could do to directly oppose them (Gods, more experienced adventurers, etc). The primary antagonists are usually on that list (at least at the start) but so are allies and incidental characters. These NPCs have their own goals and missions (which usually can be influenced) that they're undertaking at any given time which may or may not involve the PCs. However, I find it's important to limit the direct interaction between a powerful NPC and the PCs. The PCs should be aware of the NPC, perhaps enough to have an idea of what they're up to, but they cross paths too often then the NPC runs the risk of either becoming "old hat" or annoyingly impossible.
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Post by Tesla Ranger on Mar 15, 2016 16:51:26 GMT
Depends on your players. If they buy into Orinthal it could be a powerful story arc but if they don't it might fall flat. If you've listened to the DMPC episode you've probably noticed that it's really, really hard to predict how players will respond to DMPCs. One minor note: If you're following RAW then Orinthal (or Gwedhiel for that matter) wouldn't really sleep anyway. Instead of sleeping Elves meditate (called Trance) for 4 hours. You can always say that elves do sleep in your campaign but it might be worth considering other tactics to insinuate Orinthal to the campaign. Anecdotally I've found silly/entertaining personalities or accents tend to be a little more effective at garnering player interest than most story elements. Your Players May Vary. |
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Post by galakan on Mar 15, 2016 17:51:00 GMT
I don't have a lot of experience DMing (or more accurately, me and my friends can never meet), but I have some plans that I think sound fun. I have an NPC named Orinthal, a wood elf rogue who will accompany the party on a quest for a reason I'll determine when I know what quest he's coming on. Either way, one of my PCs is a high elf sorceress named Gwedhiel who has a charlatan background. I plan for Orinthal to instantly fall in love with her and I expect she'll lead him on in order to get stuff out of him. As he accompanies them on the quest, they find themselves in the woods nearest the fey wild. In his devotion to Gwedhiel, Orinthal offers to take watch or scout out and doesn't sleep, thus taking a level of exhaustion. The next day, they progress closer to their quest and he offers to scout ahead again. Suddenly, they are attacked by Displacer Beasts and I plan to kill Orinthal. Now if the PCs are creative enough or care enough to get him resurrected, I'll let it be, but otherwise I have plans - based on an episode of the DMB that I can't remember - for him to come back with a level of warlock after being convinced by a demon/devil to seek revenge for reasons that I haven't figured out yet on the demon's behalf. Whaddya think? I personally love when the death of an NPC impacts players. I also love it when you can bring it full circle, so I am totally for this idea. One thing I was thinking though is that it might resonate better if you can get Orinthal to be there for a couple sessions. Maybe let Gwedhiel actually get something useful out of him so there is more connections made to him before you off him. It might make them more likely to actually resurrect him or give him a proper burial, but I think if you bring him back as an enemy later I personally think your reaction from the players might be awesome if you give em like 1 or 2 things that bind them to the NPC more. might not work with your time constraints though if it is harder to meet up with the group |
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Post by preehofthetrees on Mar 16, 2016 13:47:13 GMT
1. In the last session of my campaign the group had their first encounter with a figurehead boss - a mindbender. After he nearly killed 2 of them, one in the group thought to cast blindness on him which was of course, successful and caused the boss to fly away. This boss is going to play a big part in the campaign and now I get to think of fun ways to make my blind caster a big power still.
2. This happens quite often in my group; when there are multiple ways into an area that may contain loot the party splits and it becomes a race. The challenge is how to make this interesting/a challenge/a fair race as its exciting for them to see who gets there first. Most often both groups encounter locked doors and the rogues group makes it through first.
3. When the party has a time limit on something but they find themselves with extra time, (In my case they were taking a ship that wouldn't leave for 2 days) I like to use the Bounty Board. If the group looks to it, I make up bounties on the spot with appropriate pricing and see what they bite on.
4. Interkingdom politics.The party has less influence on what they are far from and my world has several kingdoms driven by NPCs who each have their own agenda. These agendas manifest the most obviously when the party is near, but the agendas remain static. There are also a few big encounters that I try to steer them towards without railroading them.
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DM Rowan
Adventurer
The DM Renaissance is in full swing!
Posts: 96
Favorite D&D Class: Bard/Paladin
Favorite D&D Race: Half Elf
Gender: NB Lesbian
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Post by DM Rowan on Mar 17, 2016 19:30:41 GMT
Oh that's right elves don't sleep. Oh well I can still kill him off without exhaustion. Thanks for all the advice. I definitely want to make sure they care about him before he dies. Relationships and feels are my favorite things to incorporate
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Post by dmsam on Mar 17, 2016 20:04:11 GMT
When it comes to the death of NPCs, just make sure that the NPC was strongly liked/disliked before it dies for maximum emotional responses. Otherwise your players will totally blow it off and say something like, "That guy was a tool anyway (literally and metaphorically)." We can talk about how to make likable NPCs another time. . . I am pretty sure there is an episode on that already, actually.
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Post by Murjen Genkins on Mar 17, 2016 20:46:30 GMT
Firstly, I'd say my story-telling is an attempt to be linear-sandbox? I know what the *world* is doing and in which direction the main threads are pulling, but how my players interact with those threads and the results therein are up to them.
1. What was the most successful use of player influenced storytelling that you have experienced?
For me, it's when players latch onto a character and make it suddenly important. We had an NPC who was just a guy who liked setting fires. An arsonist in a town. They followed and tracked and obsessed over him so much that he ended up joining forces with the big bad to poison the wells in places and make the water magically flammable, because more fire. Then the BB used the fire to summon a whole heap of firey critters. The arsonist was originally just a random town guard with a penchant for burning barns, a single side mission that blossomed.
2. What was the least successful use of player influenced storytelling that you have experienced?
Poorly inserted "here's my sister" moment, because the player wanted to swap to a different character and hadn't discussed it with me before the game. We fixed it a bit with a quick chat at the break. Made the clunkiness work in our favor.
3. What is an example scenario other DMs could use to promote player influenced storytelling?
I love it when characters tell each other their backstory. When the time is right and something crazy happens in the game that relates to one or two players, so afterwards when the calm between storms hits, they have a moment to tell each other how their backstories interact with the story (and with each other's stories, not that they knew this at the time!). It helps to have a bunch of talkers who like to RP, otherwise save the exposition for a run-and-gun moment of shouted madness during the fights.
4. What are the untouchables in your campaign that the players can't influence?
The overall arc of the world. In that, we're all marching towards certain events, but how we get there and what shape we're in changes based on the players. There are enough twisted peeps trying to make a certain thing happen that it'll come to a head at some point and the players will probably be there to see it happen and try and stop it (and possibly succeed). When I listen back I'm sure I'll come across others, but that's all I can think of for now.
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retsamnoegnud
Commoner
Posts: 24 
Favorite D&D Class: Monk
Favorite D&D Race: Half-Elf
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Post by retsamnoegnud on May 11, 2016 7:17:55 GMT
1. What was the most successful use of player influenced storytelling that you have experienced?
I adopted the policy some time ago of letting players have the option to narrate any critical hit or death blow to their heart's content. One of my players, with a Barbarian PC, managed to do some of the best storytelling through combat I've ever seen. This combined with his eerie knack for landing the killing blow to making a machine of pure rage and death that left the entire table speechless on more than one occasion (I think his record was six out of eight monsters in a single battle).
2. What was the least successful use of player influenced storytelling that you have experienced?
I tried running a crime-based game in an Eberron-inspired homebrew world. It was a good plan, but I ultimately allowed one PC to simultaneously take the roles of the face, the muscle, and the leader of the band of gang enforcers. Even though no one objected to it during character creation, the result was that the same character was running lead in every scenario instead of sharing the spotlight. Unfortunately, the game fell apart before I was able to design and provide hooks for more missions closely tailored to the rest of the party.
3. What is an example scenario other DMs could use to promote player influenced storytelling?
Before beginning a campaign, go around the table and have each player share a fact about their most famous and/or influential ancestor, along with either how the other PCs might have heard of him or how he influenced the player's character. For orphans/foundlings, apply it to an inspirational figure, whether related or not.
4. What are the untouchables in your campaign that the players can't influence?
Generally speaking, if it has been either said or approved by the DM, it is canon at my table. What I choose to establish may vary from game to game, the general rule is, if I haven't either said "you know this" or "you don't know this," it is fair game to establish it. I do, however, generally give precedence in establishing any given fact to the player closest in relation to it - Dwarves can describe Dwarven society, criminals and Rogues can describe the thieves' guild, etc. A lesson I learned from letting all the players have free reign and then contradict one another with their "secret" contributions.
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Post by joatmoniac on Jun 29, 2016 0:36:05 GMT
Great idea from the Patreon hangout and dmsam and we will try and note when a DM-Nastics is about to be recorded. That way people have a last chance to get their ideas in to potentially be heard on the podcast! So this is the next DM-Nastics on the list to be recorded! |
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Your1 Nightmare
Commoner
Posts: 17
Favorite D&D Class: Bard
Favorite D&D Race: Teifling
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Post by Your1 Nightmare on Jun 29, 2016 15:38:53 GMT
So I found my storytelling to have loops. I have a main plot with several approaches that the players can take, each "arc" is fairly linear but once an arc is finished they have free rein to pick another arc. When they choose an arc I have a side quest for them as I work to prepare the arc they are about to start. I do have a lot of improv in my games but the way I have designed my sessions gives more of the illusion of choice, which when done well the players will never notice.
1. What was the most successful use of
player influenced storytelling that you have experienced?
I had a player get thrown in a jail because he ran away from,the guards when they were trying to question him. The player then used his magic to escape the jail (which was not prepared to deal with sorcerers) and let one of the other jailed individuals. I managed to use this chance to introduce a bad guy into the story that I had not prepared to introduce right away but ran with it. Now the party always asks if the black haired man is an 8 out of 10.
2. What was the least successful use of player influenced storytelling that you have experienced?
I can't say that any particular player influenced storytelling has been a failure other than a particular player using meta knowledge to influence his decisions.
3. What is an example scenario other DMs could use to promote player influenced storytelling?
I am particularly a fan of murder mysteries. Set up a scene where someone gets killed (can be important but has to hook the players). I had a gnome woman murdered in the streets of a Dwarven city by a ghost. With some investigation one of them found a gnome child who was the child of the gnome woman who was murdered. Then give the players an open space to look for clues, have some clues already set in place but if they search for clues elsewhere and are being clever reward them with a clue that may have been elsewhere.
4. What are the untouchables in your campaign that the players can't influence?
I don't believe in using untouchables, just incredibly difficult to touch. I have a Mindflayer spellcaster who is one of the main antagonists and the bad guy they released from the jail. I give them all tricks that make them difficult to catch/kill so they live to fight another day. For instance I gave the jail bad guy a cloak that lets him fly and a ring of invisibility. He escaped a fight (after being almost killed by the ranger) by jumping out a window.
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