Perpetual Newbie and Lurker Extraordinaire

Glad to have another Block Head emerge into the light.You sir have a ton of experience in my mind. Gaming for over twenty years, and a single campaign that has been running for almost a decade!? Even if you feel like a newbie you will undoubtedly have something to offer. You will likely have questions and opinions that have not been thought of or asked. Also, each group is like a blood soaked snowflake and is definitely unique. Hopefully we will hear more from you in the future!

Give yourself due credit Skedrix! At 6 years, that's longer than any campaign I've ever participated in, and I've been playing on and off since '89 or so.

To be honest, hearing peoples' input and experiences with 4e has changed my mind a bit. I'd be interested to try a game some time, although I think I'd rather be a PC with an experienced 4e DM...too many rules and mechanics to learn! I've had a hard enough time getting up to speed with 5e, and it seems a much simpler system than 4e.

Welcome to the forums!

Thank you all for the warm welcome.


I'm glad to hear people opening their minds about 4th Edition. It's certainly not an edition for everyone, as the Edition Wars have proven, but I believe that it's not nearly the atrocity that some people claim it is. Certainly not worthy of the derision it's been given.

I think the vanilla ice cream analogy I used in a different thread could be used to similar effect here:

1st Edition: regular vanilla
2nd Edition: vanilla bean
3rd Edition: french vanilla
4th Edition: butter pecan
5th Edition: soft serve

First edition was plain and simple. It got the job done, and a lot of people liked it. Second edition expanded on it, making itself different from the first, but still familiar enough that it wasn't much of a leap to go from one to the other. Third edition was quite a departure, changing the base of the game. (For those who are unfamiliar with how it's made, french vanilla's base includes egg yolks.) Fourth edition, when you take a very close look at it, uses the same base as third edition, but shakes the whole thing up by adding a bunch of things--things that some people didn't want. Things that made people say that it's no longer the same type of thing at all. Fifth edition kind of takes it back to the roots, the base flavor, but makes it a bit easier to access.

Now, there are a lot of things I like about 4E. The attacker always rolls, the unified defenses. Stacking bonuses still exists, but typed bonuses limit the stacking a bit. Math was actually paid attention to, and while 4E didn't get it perfect, it at least acknowledged that maybe there should be some sort of mathematical parity between classes in the game. It dramatically simplified encounter building for the DM. It gave every character an interesting thing they could do in combat, rather than just "I attack."

4E has its weaknesses, too. Healing is overabundant. The math breaks down after a time. Though precisely what level may vary by group, it will inevitably break down. The AEDU (At-will, Encounter, Daily, and Utility power) structure starts to feel samey to some. The Christmas tree effect (every character eventually wearing numerous magic items) is not only possible, but built into the game as part of the standard progression. There's tons of errata. Combat takes a long time.

But ultimately it's up to the table as to how or whether they'll enjoy the game. Or any game, really. I've got a group of four: one is a storyteller/actor, one is a storyteller/explorer, and the other two are just storytellers. No fighters or optimizers, two styles that 4E is supposedly made for. And yet all of them love the game, love the characters, love the story. For them it's not about immersion in the rules--for them, the rules are merely a conduit for the story. They leave knowledge of the rules up to me; they're just there to play the game.

Mmmm butter pecan is my favorite ice cream also. No wonder i like 4e.

Ah, yes, warforged. There's a particular thing about warforged that really drew me in starting with a campaign as I was playing in one time in a store-run 3.5E game...

We were in a battle with a weretiger, and my warforged character got hit. Now, in 3.5E, warforged are specifically called out as being not immune to disease. You only become immune to disease if you take a certain feat. So my warforged got infected with lycanthropy. "Were-forged?" I thought, and drew up a sketch of my tiger were-forged there at the table. The thought stuck with me as kinda cool, but ultimately not viable as a D&D character due to the need to have lycanthropy (plus, that DM was a notorious TPKer, and that character died anyway).

It wasn't until 4E, and the Character Themes that were added in later, that I finally got to see that sort of character not only become viable, but pretty cool at the table. You see, almost any character can take almost any Character Theme. So, a warforged can take the Werewolf theme. I thought that was pretty awesome until I saw another theme exclusive to humans: Pack Outcast. The Werewolf suddenly seemed limited, since the wolf form is an encounter power (can only be used once until you take a short or long rest, in 5E terms), and all the wolf form can do is bite unless you are a druid. The Pack Outcast, on the other hand, can take the wolf form as much as they want, and furthermore, rules as written state: "treat your bite as a melee weapon with a +3 proficiency bonus, a 1d8 damage die, and the enhancement bonus of your primary weapon." The stats for the bite are exactly the same as a longsword. And the bite is treated as a weapon. This opened up one particular possibility that I was really interested in.

Warforged Swordmage, Character Theme: Pack Outcast. Take only weapon-based (as opposed to implement-based) abilities.

I now had a warforged that could take wolf form, and use special abilities while in that form. What character was suddenly born from this synergy was something that allowed me to use my kolyarut mini, and in the middle of combat, switch it out for an iron defender. Now there's an iron hound running around the field, teleporting and biting with lighting, fire, and ice. A tough little beastie that's hard to hit, and in my head looks something like a mecha Amaterasu. Well, the character builds well, but I found that it's better thematically if I focus on only one damage type. Currently I'm seeing if my Spelljammer group is interested in recruiting it. I've introduced it as a warforged that was built using a blink dog in its construction, and infused with an elemental crystal. They destroyed the lightning crystal, but they have a fire and an ice one. They're a little afraid of activating it, though, since they had to fight some of these things already.

I know some people think having a party NPC can be a bad thing, but 4E requires certain roles to be filled and expects a party to be a certain size. My party is only three people, and only two roles are covered--they need allies.