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Post by dmzinthos on May 19, 2015 18:04:14 GMT
I wasn't sure if I should put this in the home-brew tab or in this section. Chose this one because the home-brew seemed more geared towards completed creatures, races, etc.
I've run into an issue that I was REALLY hoping to avoid. I have a few creatures that aesthetically (and slightly mechanically) I want to put into my campaign. The problem is I've read through the monster manual twice and while some I was able to reskin, there are two left that I'm really having an issue with.
I am trying to get three types of creatures, a caster, a tank, and a shooter. I've found some 1/4 level monsters I might be able to use and I THINK (wish I could bold, italicize, and underline that word on my cell phone) I've been able to dink around with wizard spells to have it work, but in really not comfortable with that.
I'm not comfortable with actually using what I've done though. I know it's a bit of trial and error but first impressions are lasting ones and I want the first impression of these guys as challenging and a little "oh, poop" when they show up. Which means I also need a way to level them with the characters. Story wise I can make it work. But that's as far as I've gotten. Originally I was going to find 3 or 4 different levels of creatures and just reskin those, but they don't really do anything that I want them to do (even with reskinning). I could be making it too complicated, though. I think I've hit that point in world building where I've delved so deep into the creation that I've forgotten the actual rules to the game.
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Post by friartook on May 19, 2015 18:16:20 GMT
Its hard to offer advice without more specifics.
What sort of creature are you trying to create? What creatures are you attempting to "reskin"? Post of that conceptual information would help (me anyway) give better advice/feedback on this.
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Post by dmzinthos on May 19, 2015 20:15:52 GMT
Okay so I'm not quite sure how much information you need, but here is a brief description of the three creatures: Mage: sort of a leader of any encounter group. Is a spell caster that casts fire spells (or shadow spells). Goblin something -> Pentadrone/Lizardfolk Shaman->flameskull/gold dragon wyrmling Regular monstrosities: Carrying either a sword and shield or shoots spikes out of its hands (reskinned bow). usually 2 and 1 of each respectively. Goblin something -> Lizardfolk -> Orcs ->Ettin/Helmed Horror (for tank - no idea what for archer) I was looking for them to go from 1->2->4 in creature levels based on for quantity planning: www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?367697-Encounter-difficulty-how-to-fix-it |
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Post by friartook on May 19, 2015 21:31:18 GMT
So, I can't view that website right now as I am at work and sites labeled "games" are blocked by our IT dept. However, judging by what you've written, I think you are trying to make things too complicated; it seems like your trying to hybrid together multiple monsters into something very specific you have in your head. Its not surprising nothing is fitting to your satisfaction.
From what I can gather, here is how I would go about homebrewing these NPCs/Monsters:
I'd create them as if I were creating a set of characters, like NPC templates. One for each category/role; use classes to guide you. Choose their stats and abilities, create a "race" for them. I put race in quotes, because it need not be an actual race, they could be constructs or demons or being of magic light or whatever you want. The point is, create something similar to the playable races that exist in the PHB. If you do a bit of digging through the links in the DM Resources Master List forum, and/or a bit of digging through the articles on WotC's site I've seen articles regarding race creation.
I'm recommending using classes as a guide because that will allow you to level them up with your PCs and keep them in relative balance. If you want them to be extra scary or difficult, keep them a level or two higher than your PCs.
Does this help at all? I think the "reskinning" idea is valid; using the bow and a template for the spike shooting ability for example. But you don't want to be pulling for a dozen different places.
If you like, you could attach or post (or PM me if you don't want it public) a conceptual description of these creatures. I'd be willing to put them through my own homebrew "process"and show you the results along with an outline explaining the steps I took in the process.
Let me know if this helps, if you need clarification or further explanation.
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Post by frohtastic on May 19, 2015 22:13:02 GMT
I am trying to get three types of creatures, a caster, a tank, and a shooter. I've found some 1/4 level monsters I might be able to use and I THINK (wish I could bold, italicize, and underline that word on my cell phone) I've been able to dink around with wizard spells to have it work, but in really not comfortable with that. I'm not comfortable with actually using what I've done though. I know it's a bit of trial and error but first impressions are lasting ones and I want the first impression of these guys as challenging and a little "oh, poop" when they show up. Which means I also need a way to level them with the characters. Story wise I can make it work. But that's as far as I've gotten. Are you trying to create Recurring villains or just a new "race"? Though both should be easy enough to increase with giving them class levels and reskin them to look more aesthetically pleasing. Though if I recall correct the back of the monster manual (or was it the dmg? ) has info on how to increase the CL of your monsters and how to calculate the CL of homebrewed monsters  |
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Post by dmzinthos on May 19, 2015 23:28:58 GMT
The problem isn't necessarily the level, but making the damage output equivalent. So in my description above I was planning taking the monsters and each "-> creature" would be when the NPCs leveled up. If I use the dmg version of leveling, it doesn't necessarily tell me "okay the fireball spell that you have at level one now does 2d4 instead of 1d4 per level." Unless I skipped that part, which is entirely possible.
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Post by frohtastic on May 19, 2015 23:40:12 GMT
The problem isn't necessarily the level, but making the damage output equivalent. So in my description above I was planning taking the monsters and each "-> creature" would be when the NPCs leveled up. If I use the dmg version of leveling, it doesn't necessarily tell me "okay the fireball spell that you have at level one now does 2d4 instead of 1d4 per level." Unless I skipped that part, which is entirely possible. 5E right? It should be towards the back of the book if I recall correct (though I do not have the book with me atm, work ftw.. ) How about just increasing the damage die? If its a caster, increasing the caster level should increase the damage just as it is with player spellcasters. The tank can be done by increasing the health, giving temp health, giving resistances, etc. How about giving the melee fighters Poisoned weapons as well to increase the damage through that? (aka 1W+mod+Poisondmg ) ? |
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Post by dmzinthos on May 20, 2015 0:59:24 GMT
That could work, I was just concerned that doing it arbitrarily would lead me to overpowering things too much. You can always beef up a monster inbetween fights, but toning it down is a different story.
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Post by frohtastic on May 20, 2015 2:09:00 GMT
That could work, I was just concerned that doing it arbitrarily would lead me to overpowering things too much. You can always beef up a monster inbetween fights, but toning it down is a different story. Toning down can also be aesthetically explained. For example a enemy that usualy uses two handers is limited to one handers because he is missing an arm. etcetera etcetera |
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Post by dmzinthos on May 20, 2015 14:23:18 GMT
Toning down can also be aesthetically explained. For example a enemy that usualy uses two handers is limited to one handers because he is missing an arm. etcetera etcetera Haha that actually makes a lot of sense, and not sure how I didnt think of it. I got pretty bad tunnel vision on that. Thanks!!! |
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Post by joatmoniac on May 20, 2015 23:58:18 GMT
Scaling down is always fun because then you can attempt to spice up low level play and avoid the trope monsters we have killed dozens of times. Sickness is another great way to do this, be that a curse placed on them or maybe malnourishment, or like Frohtastic said one arm instead of two. It could even be a tribal decision where all of the fighting males cut off an arm because their greatest warrior only had one arm.
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