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Post by friartook on Feb 6, 2017 14:23:54 GMT
What about looting bodies? Can the players always loot the equipment the monsters had? If a goblin has a dagger, can the players take the dagger as loot, ect!? I mean, the short answer is "Yes." But, looting the bodies isn't always feasible. Perhaps there are other enemies to face, or a time pressure to move on. A problem I've seen a lot with new players is an expectation that D&D will work just like an RPG video game. In a video game, you loot the bodies with a single click (if that), your can carry absurd amounts of gear in your inventory (like multiple suits of armor), your actions have limited or no consequences, and time is only a factor if a clock is literally ticking in your face. In D&D, looting bodies involves a full search of each body, if you try to carry 4 sets of plate mail your going to walk slower and be louder, your actions and behavior will be remembered by those you encounter, and time is always passing, clock or no (much like real life). So, if your players want to loot the bodies of the 30 goblins they just killed, that will take, what, 5 minutes per body? So the evil Wizard they are chasing will have over 2 hours to escape or prepare something really nasty for the PCs. You can tell them this, as a "Your character would know and think of this, even if you don't," or you can teach them a lesson over and over. Every time they spend too much time looting bodies, they miss out on a future encounter or that encounter is much harder than it should have been, because the baddies had time to prepare.
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Post by lasersniper on Feb 6, 2017 19:04:52 GMT
What about looting bodies? Can the players always loot the equipment the monsters had? If a goblin has a dagger, can the players take the dagger as loot, ect!? I mean, the short answer is "Yes." But, looting the bodies isn't always feasible. Perhaps there are other enemies to face, or a time pressure to move on. A problem I've seen a lot with new players is an expectation that D&D will work just like an RPG video game. In a video game, you loot the bodies with a single click (if that), your can carry absurd amounts of gear in your inventory (like multiple suits of armor), your actions have limited or no consequences, and time is only a factor if a clock is literally ticking in your face. In D&D, looting bodies involves a full search of each body, if you try to carry 4 sets of plate mail your going to walk slower and be louder, your actions and behavior will be remembered by those you encounter, and time is always passing, clock or no (much like real life). So, if your players want to loot the bodies of the 30 goblins they just killed, that will take, what, 5 minutes per body? So the evil Wizard they are chasing will have over 2 hours to escape or prepare something really nasty for the PCs. You can tell them this, as a "Your character would know and think of this, even if you don't," or you can teach them a lesson over and over. Every time they spend too much time looting bodies, they miss out on a future encounter or that encounter is much harder than it should have been, because the baddies had time to prepare. I agree with friartook completely. The only thing I wanted to add is I usually find it good rule of thumb is to replace "video game" logic with you basic common sense when it comes to stuff like this. Especially if your group is playing in a "standard" D&D world. You know, magical but not cartoony. Realistic but not survivalist type campaign. And make sure you make this clear to your players as well. It really helps if they come into a session or campaign knowing what "rules of reality" they should be playing by. As the GM, you also will be training them on how world works as well through gameplay. So say that group of goblins have a little gold on them each, then your group probably will take the time to loot the next, and the next, and the next, as long as they are still being rewarded for it. Now if they loot the goblins, and say 1 of the 5 has some gold, and then the rest of bits of string, some crappy weapons, and a nawed on rabbits foot, they may be less inclined to loot every body they come across. Same goes for weapons. They might be able to pick the weapons up, but they may not be able to sell these used old weapons to anyone.
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Post by dmsam on Feb 6, 2017 19:46:41 GMT
That's up to the DM. An orc'so plate armor may not fit a human, and will need to be altered extensively at a blacksmith.
Some players take everything. If you do not want to deal with it, just throw them a bag of holding early and let them sort things out themselves.
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Post by dmgenisisect on Feb 6, 2017 20:42:30 GMT
Anything the monster had on it is fair game for looting, though in the case of armour I'll often point out that it won't fit right until it gets reworked. If something died in a pretty destructive fashion (thrown in a bonfire, lava, dropped from a great height, etc) feel free to have flamible/fragile loot be broken. If it feels like your players are just picking up everything, you can always enforce maximum carrying capacity. That should make them more careful about what the loot.
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Post by friartook on Feb 6, 2017 20:59:14 GMT
In my experience the "loot everything" mentality is pretty firmly rooted in playing games like Skyrim. In Skyrim, you are rewarded for grabbing every damn thing you can, because it is all salable to a merchant. Just talk it out. Explain that D&D doesn't work like a video game. Insert some common sense.
If the mentality persists, institute strict carry capacity and inventory tracking. Make the players do the math too. Make it a pain in the butt and make sure they don't get rewarded much by it. If they get frustrated by all that (which is likely), remind them of your previous conversation.
Incidentally, this is what worked with my group. I finally asked them, "What kind of game do you want to be playing here? Do you want a majority of our game time to be taken up with looting, rolling random loot, calculating carry capacity, finding merchants to buy the loot, negotiating price and thus, making gold? If that's the game you want to play, we can play it. But it sure sounds boring to me. Instead, can you just trust me? Trust that I will reward your characters with interesting loot and gear if you reward me (and eachother) with excellent story and adventure?"
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Post by theevilyeti on Feb 6, 2017 21:18:04 GMT
These answers are awesome. Damged equipment is brilliant, especaily when the scimitar was bent hitting our dwarfs armor haha. Ok great answers guys.
Next up...... difficulty. So the campign is excellent so far and its tailor made for 4 level one chars, building them up through the campaign. (Tyranny of dragons)! How ever we have a party of six now, and im scared to spawn in too many mobs and over kill, when the book says put beasts out its fine. I do t jave the knowledge to adjust for an extra two party members and keep it perfectly difficult. We have a wood elf druid, teifling warlock, half elf bard, dark elf rougue, dwarf fighter, half orc fighter all level 3.
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Post by theevilyeti on Feb 6, 2017 21:20:49 GMT
I wona add in fun items too coz its fun, but dont wona over power the group
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drdoost
Squire
Posts: 33
Favorite D&D Class: Bard
Favorite D&D Race: Aasimar
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Post by drdoost on Feb 7, 2017 0:43:35 GMT
I'd actually like to hear the rest of the Block Party's responses on this, but I can give you my opinion and my experience. Sometimes when I design an encounter or a dungeon for my players, I have trouble coming up with the right amount of monsters to throw at them, and the right Challenge Rating of a monster to make. There are plenty of calculators, generators, and other things available all over the net. Some of those will help you get a general idea on what your characters will be able to handle, but none of them are going to be perfect. I usually end up rolling what the Dungeon Master's Guide tells me is a good fit for their level, and my players absolutely destroy them. Sometimes I'll buff the monster halfway through the fight just to make it last a bit longer, especially if it seems like my players are enjoying the fight.
As far as your second question, you can add many "fun" items that don't give your players any power over the numbers, but can give them some fun roleplaying options. I've given my players swords sing when their swung, armor that sparks in many colors when its hit. Giving items sentience is also really fun. Give your players a pair of boots that complain about having to carry them around all day, or a helmet that calls out targets. Anything like that can add hours of fun to your game without making your players "overpowered" in the slightest.
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Post by dmgenisisect on Feb 7, 2017 1:43:11 GMT
I'm pretty sure Tyranny of Dragons is balanced for up to 7 PCs, so it should still be mostly balanced. If you feel everything is too easy for the PCs you can bump up the difficulty by topping up the encounters with some extra monsters. If there's around four monsters in the encounter it's generally a safe bet to just add an extra 2 of those monsters in. If the encounter only has 1 or 2 monsters in it, consider adding 2 or so low level minions.
Adding some fluffy items is always fun. There are the trinket lists on pages 160-161 of the player's handbook if you want inspiration for the kind of minor effects you could include.
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Post by friartook on Feb 7, 2017 15:17:59 GMT
I am not a rules lawyer by any stretch of the term. I view all rules as guidelines; frameworks to help us move the story forward and to determine the outcome of difficult actions. I say this as a disclaimer to my following statement; I have no hard evidence to back it up, just a deep intuitive suspicion.
I am of the opinion that encounter balance in 5e is structurally broken. Something is off. Certain encounters built to proper balance are way too easy, some seem way too hard.
Once I came to this stance, I threw balanced encounters out the window. I play it really fast and loose. If something is too easy, I throw more at the PCs. If something is too hard...well...I either back off the aggression or just let it be hard. Sometimes an unbeatable challenge is a good thing in a game. How many fantasy novels have you read where the heroes were able to defeat every enemy every time? A truly dangerous encounter also breeds caution in players, encouraging them to find non-combat solutions to problems.
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Post by theevilyeti on Feb 10, 2017 15:19:11 GMT
Thanks again, il use all this information best i can.
Next question
If creatures/players get damaged, does it effect their abilities. For example an orc has his leg damaged badly, can he now not run as fast? Will he have dissadvantage on athletic checks?
If a players arm is hurt, will affect him fighting/climbing untill healed?
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Post by lasersniper on Feb 10, 2017 19:00:15 GMT
Thanks again, il use all this information best i can. Next question If creatures/players get damaged, does it effect their abilities. For example an orc has his leg damaged badly, can he now not run as fast? Will he have dissadvantage on athletic checks? If a players arm is hurt, will affect him fighting/climbing untill healed? That really is up to you. This is the portion of the game where the GM rules and mechanics of the game really get squished together. There is no hard rules that say that SHOULD happen. But if you are playing a somewhat realistic campaign then common sense dictates it should. The rules give you as the GM tools to impose those penalties with things like harder checks and disadvantage. In the end however, it is up to you if you want to handwave it or keep track of it.
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Post by dmgenisisect on Feb 11, 2017 0:25:23 GMT
Rules as written there is no in game effect of taking damage (until you go down).
I tend to just leave it as narrative, because I don't see the benefit of introducing mechanics for it into the game. So for example say a goblin strikes the player and I describe it as "the goblin strikes you in the shoulder." I would then encourage the player to describe how their wounded shoulder effects then for the duration of the battle, how they "gritting their teeth they lash out with their weapon." I particularly encourage blaming wounds for misses "the pain in my arm slows my strike allowing the goblin to dodge the blow."
The lack of wounds in DnD has inspired a number of hp replacement mechanics, which I encourage you to look at. But for me I tend to look at it more like plot armour points then an actual representation of health. So my combat tends to be filled with superficial wounds and people pulling a Boromir and fighting on through horrible wounds.
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Post by theevilyeti on Feb 11, 2017 15:04:34 GMT
Agreed! I think leave it to narrative, it will over complicate and leave it open for arguments.
Ok so next up. Do you put dex modifer on to initiative rolls?
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Post by dmdeejay on Feb 11, 2017 16:52:41 GMT
Hey I know you may have moved on but I wanted to throw in a couple thoughts about your queries.
Regarding players leaving dungeons to heal: Though I do agree that there are some dungeons and events where there will be more tension and excitement if the players are trapped (i.e. Cave in at the entrance, locked inside, etc...) constant use of this may fester resentment or just get boring for the players. A couple alternate means to battle it would be this: - URGENCY - provide the players a reason they have to do it quickly. May eve there is an approaching army, or a kid napping, or a ritual that must be stopped before midnight. This drives player agency and forces the players to weigh they're actions against the monsters and time; the cruelest of villains. - DUNGEONS RESET - okay so let's say the players are halfway through a dungeon. Killed off several rooms of goblins and orcs but have yet to reach the big baddy lurking in its depths. They want to leave the dungeon and rest. Let them. They want to go back to town and stay at the inn? Sure. So realistically, they are looking at travel time and a long rest so it is easy to suspect it may take about 12-24 hours until they are back in that dungeon. So if that's the case, why would it be just like they left it? Wouldn't it make sense that the bad guys would have moved about their joint during that time? They may have set up new traps, obtained reinforcements, or maybe even relocated altogether. So if the party wishes to leave a dungeon early, they should know there are likely consequences. Let them try, let them learn.
Regarding looting bodies: I agree with the other posters and state hat if they have time, let em at it. What I do though is state if they are in a hurry, I have them roll perception to determine what they can quickly ascertain/obtain.
Regarding battle difficulties: For the record I still consider myself relatively new to the world of being a dungeon Master, but this is what I have learned so far in regards to battle Which kind of plays into what was mentioned earlier. Keep it real. If a dungeon is known to be inhabited by multiple enemies, it would make sense that a battle that's going too quick may suddenly have reinforcements join in. Nothing too dangerous, but just something to keep the stakes high. Sometimes this is a better alternative than just suddenly adding her points to the bag guys, but there is a time for that.
On the flip-side, if the it becomes apparent the battle is too difficult, not every battle has to end in a death. For example if a bosses to beaten or the big baddie goes down, the rest of the squad might attempt to retreat instead of fighting to the end. Or perhaps a spell is broken and the remainder of the skeletons suddenly clatter to the ground as lifeless bones. Maybe they even surrender or try and parlay, possibly even offer up a hostage. Just some thoughts.
Regarding injuries: As other posters have stated, this really goes to your judgment. I have a general rule that I try not to do big game changing injuries to the bosses unless they are earned. Most of the time it would require some sort of amazing feat of role-playing, or even a natural 20. However if it's just like goblins or skeletons, or anything like that, then the hell with it. They can break bones all they want which I would argue it gives the them disadvantage on any attack roll using a weapon with a broken limb, unless it's their other side. With that said, if the character is down to their final hit points, I tend to have a character become more sluggish or panicked or possibly in a rage.m; Something that would fall in line with the race of monster. But sometimes the injuries sustained ends up being there death. Rarely do I see any reason to leave a bad guy with one hit point alive for more than two rounds. If they're down that low, there's a good chance they're bleeding out and I will actually use death saves against them where all they have to do is fail once and they're gone.
Regarding initiative: Yes
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