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Post by dmnate on Jul 15, 2016 12:10:30 GMT
I have a player with some very odd questions about the monks ability to walk on surfaces. Firstly, by using has ki how does he go about it? Is he speeding himself up or is it just some magic force like in narruto? He wants to know if it's possible for his monk to run up waterfalls. What do you guys think? I think the waterfall idea is really cool but I'm afraid the idea may get abused. Maybe a athletic check with the ability? "At 9th level, you gain the ability to move along vertical surfaces and across liquids on your turn without falling during the move."
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Post by dmsam on Jul 15, 2016 15:20:31 GMT
Honestly, at 9th level most characters should have some ability to negate gravity.
All spell casting classes will have access to fly, so I don't think it is too ridiculous to run up a waterfall.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2016 17:36:10 GMT
RAW, I believe the short answer is that yes, he can run up waterfalls. There are some complicating factors that are worth considering, though.
First, the ability only works on your turn. That means if you're still on a vertical or water surface at the end of your turn, you immediately fall. Second, the surface of a waterfall is constantly moving down, and the surface tension of a waterfall is variable across its dimensions.
What does this mean? Assuming a movement speed of 45, he won't reach the top of a 50 foot waterfall with one normal movement. He could dash or double dash (ki dash + dash action) though. Anything much taller than 150 feet will be out of reach without additional tools/resources.
Since the water is moving down, travelling up it would be a bit like walking up an escalator that's heading down. Your speed will be effectively reduced. I would treat it as difficult terrain, so you're down to around 20/45/65 (move, dash, double dash) feet for the tallest waterfall he can ascend.
Finally, I would have to somewhat arbitrarily decide how deep into the waterfall he goes. He needs some surface tension, or he could just walk on top of a bank of fog, too, right? The surface tension is going to vary a lot from the bottom to the top of the waterfall, with an ever greater difference between those points the greater the height of the fall. The point is, he's probably going to have to start his ascent close to the center of the bottom of the fall, and that's going to be challenging as he gets buffeted by all that falling water. I would require an athletics check based on the height of the fall just to attempt the movement. Maybe something like DC 10 for up to a 50 foot waterfall, 15 for 100, 20 for anything higher.
Or you could just hand wave it, and simply allow/disallow it as suits the feel of your game.
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Post by dmnate on Jul 16, 2016 15:47:20 GMT
Thanks guys! I basically screen shot this and sent it to my player! I couldn't have explained it better myself. We are a 3.5 crew originally and I don't know if anyone else does this but 3.5 in a lot of ways is so rule heavy you can break down real life situations with the rules lol. "Looks at 50ft building...... About 5d6 damage if I fell"
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2016 16:23:58 GMT
Happy to offer my perspective, just remember that it's a ruling, not a rule. I took this question to enworld to see how others would adjudicate it. The short version is that most people would allow it, and of that majority, some would allow it without penalty, some would make it difficult terrain, and some would require an athletics check. I think I was the only person who suggested both difficult terrain and an athletics check. The other oft-repeated tidbit was to adjudicate it based on the feel of the campaign and what you're comfortable with. In my opinion, the most convincing argument in the whole thread actually suggests allowing it without penalty, because a) it's awesome, and b) a waterfall obstacle probably isn't going to appear frequently over the course of the monk's adventuring career, so just let him have that moment of glory.
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