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Post by donosaur on Jul 7, 2016 14:41:59 GMT
Me again, with the Aboleth-is-secretly-influencing-Neverember-to-flood-Neverwinter campaign. I've been trying to run the city like a sandbox, where every character has some hook to look into, but there's also an over-arching main-arc interwoven through the story. My issue is that, whether they know it or not, my players are avoiding the main arc at every turn.
Example: Their quest took them to a wake for the PC's fellow church member, which brought them into contact with the upper echelons of Black Lake society. I emphasized that these are rich people who know a lot of things and have been in town for generations, and reminded them that these people could answer questions for them about the city, about Neverember, and about the PC's sidequest; What did they ask the NPCs about? Their house. Their personal history. Gossip about other NPCs at the party. It was all stuff I had answers to, but I couldn't plausibly think of ways for the NPCs to blurt out the info I had pre-loaded them with based on the questions my players were asking.
The problem is at least twofold: my players role-play as themselves instead of as characters that live in the campaign world. They avoid conflict, they're scared of getting hit, and they talk to NPCs like they're actual people at a party instead of assets in their quest. This would be admirable, but it makes it really hard for them to get anything done unless I spring it on them, because no one in the party ever seems willing to initiate. If a quest required them to get into a house and the doorman told them no, I feel like they'd just sit on their hands.
I would try and work with this and give them a looser, more meandering campaign, but they seems bored at the same time. We only get to meet every 2 weeks when things work out, and lately it's been much more inconsistent, so I need things to really happen each time we meet. Instead I feel like the party is aimlessly wandering around town with nothing to do, but when I dangle a hook in front of them they talk to the NPC about their shoes or something.
Maybe this isn't as big of a problem as I'm perceiving. It just feels like I'm having to do a lot of the work to make the plot go anywhere, and in doing so I'm also making things unsatisfying for my players. Clearly I have failed to hook them adequately, but I have yet to provide bait juicy enough for them to go after, apparently.
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Post by donosaur on Jul 7, 2016 17:57:44 GMT
you know, my campaign isn't really a sandbox the more I think about it. There are multiple plot hooks dangling all over, and those plots have beginnings, middles, and ends, but it's not a true sandbox. My issue is that none of my hooks seem to be working.
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Your1 Nightmare
Commoner
Posts: 17 
Favorite D&D Class: Bard
Favorite D&D Race: Teifling
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Post by Your1 Nightmare on Jul 8, 2016 2:36:42 GMT
This is very difficult to access in my opinion without know what the characters/players are and what their hooks are. Some players need something that is tied directly to the backstory they gave, some just need a group to hang out with. Even if you can find a way to get one person to initiate I think your other players will jump into it or at least just follow along. My best advice is to work with what they want to do, even ask them alone what their character wants. If you have a story you are telling, I am sure you are able to tie it into what that player wants to do in some way. Make the main plot get in the way of doing what they want to accomplish or as the path to accomplish their goal. If they don't want to follow it, then you may have to scrap your plot and work with what your players decide to do.
I know this is a little vague and maybe a bit confusing but I hope it helps.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2016 3:50:20 GMT
Give this a listen when you have 20 minutes: GM briefing |
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Post by donosaur on Jul 12, 2016 20:23:47 GMT
I really want to listen to it but it always stops after about 30 seconds  EDIT: I just had to download it, carry on |
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Post by friartook on Jul 13, 2016 14:14:32 GMT
you know, my campaign isn't really a sandbox the more I think about it. There are multiple plot hooks dangling all over, and those plots have beginnings, middles, and ends, but it's not a true sandbox. My issue is that none of my hooks seem to be working. You beat me to it. As I read your OP I was thinking that this didn't sound pure sandbox. Are your players all new to RPGs? Is there a "player vs. GM" vibe at your table? Did they get roughed up really bad early on in the campaign (or in a previous campaign)? These are all things that, in my experience, lead players to "sit on their hands" and make them afraid to engage with conflict and the world. I've had to have overt talks with my table. They complained about feeling aimless and not knowing what to do. I told them, "Look, you guys are avoiding or stonewalling every opportunity for adventure I hand you. I've dropped numerous hints, clues, NPCs and opportunities in your path, and you've chose not to engage with them. If you want something interesting to happen, try being interested in what I put in front of you." I even had a player, at the start of our most recent campaign, request a breakdown of my planned story and plot, so they could "have an easier time going along with it". I said, "No. Why would I give away all the fun stuff I have planned? Isn't it more fun to be surprised? To discover cool things as we go? If you guys want to go along with my story, then go along with it! That's on you, not me!" Sometimes a bit of tabletalk/metagame talk can help your players understand your intent, and what you expect from them. It may also help you understand what they are looking for; what will engage them. |
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Post by donosaur on Jul 22, 2016 17:55:35 GMT
The overt talk thing is what happened at our last meetup, which I feel FINALLY got things on track. The party discovered that the devil cult had been looking for one of the PCs, that a mystery they THOUGHT was related to one thing actually had to do with ANOTHER thing, the new PC has ties to enemy,...and then I put everything on pause and laid out for them that these are all the hooks. They can pursue whatever they want and the others will wait (unless they explicitly know that it won't. One PC is slowly dying from a curse, so they know that needs to get resolved sooner rather than later). With everything sort of noted and named, they were able to put their heads together and prioritize.
Something I said must've finally got them interested in the chasm (probably the stuff about the spooky dreams about dark endless oceans and the hints that an elder god or rift has opened up down there) but they also wisely determined that they weren't prepared to tackle it yet. Perfect. This gives me time to get them suspicious of their boss Neverember, as long and I play him wisely. At the end of the session, I had them state what they planned on doing next time so I could prepare around it. Based on who will and won't be able to attend that session, looks like I have some devil cult building to do.
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Post by nebichan on Jan 26, 2017 21:46:38 GMT
I know you've gotten this problem solved a while ago, but I thought I would put in my two cents in case anyone else finds this helpful.
This specifically pertains to getting the PCs to ask the right questions...
Since your PCs are chatty and like to talk about anything but the plot doesn't mean you have to have them ask someone about plot related items. When you have enough people, there is always someone who loves a good rumor or a story and can't wait to share it with anyone else. Maybe the NPC is bored with mundane chatter, "hmm? oh yes, business is fine, but did you hear about all of those people going on down by the docks? Some say it's just people getting press-ganged but I heard fish-people have been seen..." Bartenders, barmaids, general store owners in small towns, and the old guy sitting on the porch are great for this.
Or maybe link in the an NPCs interests with the plot going on, if the player's ask about gossip, "I heard his business isn't doing well, many of his ship crew have gone missing..."
Also if it is in a crowded environment, maybe just having a PC overhear a bit of something, then give them the option to listen for more, or interject themselves in the conversation
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Post by donosaur on Jan 30, 2017 22:06:51 GMT
I appreciate the comment! This is an ongoing issue, my party is meandering through the plot still. My most recent strongarming is that I've been trying to get them to pick up the hint that the Lord's big fancy bridge project is more than just a garish waste of money...it's something foul. But without outright having someone tell them what it was, no one took the bait. So, finally, during a prison break I had them also rescue a gnome engineer who had been working on the bridge and got jailed for asking too many questions. Now that they have an NPC with a goal in their company, they have a concrete reason to investigate. So, takeaway: know if your players care more about mysteries and schemes, or people and their goals.
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