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Post by Tesla Ranger on Apr 2, 2016 17:44:37 GMT
We got this notion from twitter but after doing the math myself and considering it I find this notion rather appealing. It's not something I'm going to be able to make proper use of in my own campaign but I figured some other DM might find it useful. The math works out like thus: There's about 4 grams of iron in an adult male human (about 3.5 grams in a female). A typical longsword weighs somewhere between 2.5-3.5 lbs (~1140-1800 grams). Battle swords more than 4 lbs are incredibly uncommon. Ergo, assuming a perfect method of extraction, the iron from 300-450 human bodies would be sufficient to make a functional longsword. Beyond that, human bones could be used a source of carbon to turn that iron into crucible steel. The skin can be tanned to make the handle wrap and sheath (a process that would make use of the salts and oils in the body). The extraction process should also yield about 25-40 grams of copper (as well as amounts of zinc, magnesium, selenium, etc) that could be used for ornamentation. The bottomline being that just employing chemistry, metallurgy, and smithery a fully functional sword could be made entirely from human bodies.
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Post by friartook on Apr 2, 2016 19:00:04 GMT
I saw this too. It's totally going into my upcoming campaign.
There's a culture that was the subject of a near genocide. They were wiped out by a zealous order of anti-magic Paladins. This culture worshipped a God of death. Fearsome warriors and deadly priests/magic users. These Paladins already thought magic was evil, and considered the necromancy practiced by this culture to be the embodiment of that evil. So they staged a pogrom. There are a few left alive descended from this nation. Most of them are slaves, many slave gladiators.
The highest honor for a warrior in this culture was to die in battle. I'm thinking especially strong fighters had their bodies brought back to an alchemical forge, and were made into weapons for others to wield in battle.
So bad@$$.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2016 19:06:11 GMT
This is not what I was expecting from the title! Very dark. I love it. An interesting coincidence, too, because last night I was working on the timeline for my homebrew and decided that at some point elves invented an alchemical process for extracting metal from a fantasy species of plant. The proportion of metal to organic matter in these plants is much higher than iron in the human body, but the principle is about the same. Still, I was a little skeptical about the viability of this for humans when I read your idea. I did a little digging around the net to get more info, and found this: "Menghini developed Galeazzi’s research on the presence of iron in the blood, identifying the red corpuscles as the chief site of iron within the organism. He experimentally reduced an organ to ashes, then used a magnetized knife to extract iron particles from it. Since he suspected that the iron particles might be contained in the blood within the organ so treated (especially if it were muscle) he carefully washed out the blood before incinerating it, and found that the number of iron particles did perceptibly decrease. Having thus demonstrated that the iron in an organism is located primarily in the blood, Menghini continued his investigation in an effort to determine which of the three components of the blood—as described by Malpighi in De polypo cordis—actually contained the iron. He used Malpighi’s method of repeatedly washing coagulum to separate the blood into its three parts, then examined each, thus determining that while iron was absent from both the serum and the bleached coagulum, it was abundant in the red corpuscles that remained in the washing liquid." www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G2-2830902910.htmlPoint being, you apparently don't even need to use chemistry to make it happen. It seems like a very laborious process to get a little regular iron, so this firmly belongs in the evil madman methodology, though that's obvious enough given the ~400 bodies you'd need to start making a "man-made sword."
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Post by dmsam on Apr 2, 2016 19:28:57 GMT
Seems a bit over-kill. That said, I doubt anyone is going to go through that much effort for a little iron, unless there is something magical about it, or that it is somehow easier than mining. Maybe there is a race with a lot more elemental iron in their bodies. I hear dragonborn might be like that.
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Post by Tesla Ranger on Apr 2, 2016 19:56:50 GMT
Chemically such a weapon wouldn't be much different from any conventional weapon, but as a symbol (and hence as a vehicle for magic) it'd be incredibly potent. It would take a bizarre scenario where this situation becomes more practical than conventional mining/refining.
I could make the point that reducing something by fire is some of humanity's most basic chemistry, but that's academic. It is interesting to read about the process a bit. I suspect you could use some variation of electrolysis as well, but fire's certainly a lot simpler & probably quicker.
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Post by robosnake on Apr 5, 2016 2:10:34 GMT
Seems a bit over-kill. That said, I doubt anyone is going to go through that much effort for a little iron, unless there is something magical about it, or that it is somehow easier than mining. Maybe there is a race with a lot more elemental iron in their bodies. I hear dragonborn might be like that. I don't know, even just historically, people have done some crazy things. People dying building the Great Wall, walled into buildings to ward off evil spirits, sacrificed so that the sun would keep rising. I don't see some warlord being past processing 400 captives to create a legendary sword, and it would absolutely be magical. No question there. I could easily see it continuing to hunger for flesh, doing extra damage or even having a health-stealing effect when it hits. And of course the classic limitation that once unsheathed, it must draw blood before it can be sheathed again...
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Post by dmsam on Apr 5, 2016 2:25:09 GMT
Well if it's going to be a magical weapon, I'm in!
The Screamer Longsword, legendary, requires attunement to a non-good aligned creature.
You gain a +2 bonus to attack and damage while wielding this weapon. When you hit a non-construct, non-undead creature, it must succeed in a DC 16 constitution saving throw or be stunned for 1d4 rounds as four hundred screams of agony overwhelm its mind and body.
Bloodsteel Longsword, legendary, requires attunement. You gain a +2 bonus to attack and damage rolls while wielding this magic weapon. Killing a humanoid creature causes the bonus to become +3 for 24 hours.
Curse: Bloodsteel is a cursed, sentient weapon, and speaks telepathically to its wielder in disembodied voices, urging it to commit murder. For each day that passes without killing a humanoid creature, the wielder suffers one level of exhaustion and gains no benefits from short or long rests.
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Post by catcharlie on Apr 5, 2016 9:42:24 GMT
I'm amazed that no one has referenced this yet
But yes, that would be awesome, a weapon forged from bodies, maybe a sacrificial dagger made from humans (you'd need less people, but you could make more), you could tan the skin and use it as both the sheath and wrap it around the handle to make it more comfortable. I'm sure it would give a bonus to blood magic or necromancy when wielded by a magic user. If you are using some form of Soul powered magic (like the magic weapons in Skyrim) you could also have some awesome magic from the hundreds of souls that escaped from the bodies used to make it. You could also (I'm sure) compress anything extra down into making some form of Diamond or other gem stone that could be used to enhance magic or just make the weapon look pretty.
I can just imagine a pair of siblings, one a mage, the other a Rogue/Murderer; for years they stole people from their homes and from the streets, they hid them away under the city or in a large cave complex until they had enough to complete their plans. 800 lives were extinguished that night, souls trapped, bodies warped, the siblings gained weapons and power that night.
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Post by dmsam on Apr 5, 2016 10:37:50 GMT
Another idea is that the blade starts off as a dagger, and grows longer and heavier as it kill and extracts more iron from its victims. Although keeping track of its growth would be terrible.
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Post by catcharlie on Apr 5, 2016 15:37:18 GMT
Another idea is that the blade starts off as a dagger, and grows longer and heavier as it kill and extracts more iron from its victims. Although keeping track of its growth would be terrible. You could keep track of it as an XP type, 1 XP per kill, Level 1 = Dagger, 30 XP to Level 2 = Rapier, 50 XP to Level 3 = Short sword, Etc...
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Post by Tesla Ranger on Apr 5, 2016 16:41:27 GMT
Following that to it's logical conclusion, you'd eventually wind up with a Masumune-ish 12' sword that nobody could practically wield.
If it must be magic, I think it'd be a pretty good candidate for a sentient weapon. Perhaps the souls of the "raw materials", or what's left of them, fuse together to make a new entity. Perhaps this isn't an intentional feature of the process but more of an emergent property; something the builder didn't anticipate. And perhaps the sword eventually concludes it would rather not be a tool for murder. It may have been created by an incredibly evil process but the weapon itself might be more Good aligned (or visa versa).
I suppose it depends on the table. I would find it more interesting as a vehicle for exploring hypothetical concepts but a group of murder hobos would probably rather have a straight-forward death machine. Not that there's anything to say the party gets the weapon either way...
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Post by friartook on Apr 5, 2016 17:00:10 GMT
I love how everyone see different potential.
In my mind (and the world I'm building) these weapons are life drinking weapons. They deal necrotic damage and give part (or all) of it back to the wielder as temporary HP.
Certain weapons made from special individuals are used for powerful ritual purposes.
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Post by DM Windhover on Apr 5, 2016 18:00:24 GMT
Edit: No idea why the quote refuses to embed properly... it was "You could keep track of it as an XP type, 1 XP per kill, Level 1 = Dagger, 30 XP to Level 2 = Rapier, 50 XP to Level 3 = Short sword, Etc... " Cool idea, but I'd recommend against progressing from rapier to short sword, as that would actually represent a loss of power. Instead, you could let the player describe the weapon however they please, but have the damage dice increase as the weapon gains "XP." 1d4 to 1d6 to 1d8 and onwards, perhaps maxing out as a 1d8/1d10 versatile weapon. Anyone attuned to the weapon treats it as a weapon with which they have proficiency, regardless of how they choose to describe it. Then higher levels of "XP" might make it act as a +1, +2, and ultimately +3 weapon, but with significant XP gaps. You could even calculate out the math with reasonable certainty to guarantee that it reaches those levels at about the right time for the players to be using such weapons normally, so as to maintain game balance. You could also have some minor properties for the weapon that "unlock" as it reaches certain XP thresholds. (E.g. "Once the blade reaches 50 kills, the wielder begins to hear the whispers of those trapped within the blade whenever he or she holds it.") And at my table, I'd start making the wielder make sanity checks at a certain point...
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Post by joatmoniac on Apr 5, 2016 20:56:43 GMT
I think a progression would be an interesting way to go about it because it pushes the player to want to kill more often, and the story implications involved there. Not to over complicate it, but needing to be the one who gets the killing blow can be a tough go of things. I would award more XP for it, and some XP for drawing the iron from a "fresh" kill so that the progression continues to happen even if the player gets unlucky with being the one to deliver the final attack.
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Post by catcharlie on Apr 5, 2016 21:14:12 GMT
Edit: No idea why the quote refuses to embed properly... You could keep track of it as an XP type, 1 XP per kill, Level 1 = Dagger, 30 XP to Level 2 = Rapier, 50 XP to Level 3 = Short sword, Etc..." Cool idea, but I'd recommend against progressing from rapier to short sword, as that would actually represent a loss of power. Instead, you could let the player describe the weapon however they please, but have the damage dice increase as the weapon gains "XP." 1d4 to 1d6 to 1d8 and onwards, perhaps maxing out as a 1d8/1d10 versatile weapon. Anyone attuned to the weapon treats it as a weapon with which they have proficiency, regardless of how they choose to describe it. Then higher levels of "XP" might make it act as a +1, +2, and ultimately +3 weapon, but with significant XP gaps. You could even calculate out the math with reasonable certainty to guarantee that it reaches those levels at about the right time for the players to be using such weapons normally, so as to maintain game balance. You could also have some minor properties for the weapon that "unlock" as it reaches certain XP thresholds. (E.g. "Once the blade reaches 50 kills, the wielder begins to hear the whispers of those trapped within the blade whenever he or she holds it.") And at my table, I'd start making the wielder make sanity checks at a certain point... I was thinking Rapier to Short Sword more in the vain of a rapier (in my mind) has less metal mass than a short sword, but yeah, no point in it downgrading with more XP. I also thought a couple of things 1. Depending on the weapon progression that the player wanted you could eventually draw it out to be a Glaive or some other long handled polearm weapon, but it would be made totally from this 'Human Ore Metal' (sounds like some form of futuristic game show where you guess if the person is a human or an android... "And now it's time to play HUMAN OR(E) METAAAAAAAAAAAL!!") 2. Alternatively the handle (Pommel?) could grow an orb of metal that could then be forged into another dagger, maybe it needs to be 'fed' blood (left to soak in a bowl of blood?) for it to grow to be made into a more human sized creature weapon. Though it could be used as a tiny creatures weapon for a time being? 3. The handle of the weapon could start to grow over the wielders hand eventually trapping their hand (depending on how much battle they saw), could it eventually encase the wielder entirely? Why is it that the Dark and twisted ideas always get the juices flowing (no pun intended)!
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