|
|
Post by LegendOfZia (formerly DM Phil) on Mar 9, 2016 16:03:13 GMT
Hey everyone. As we all know, Dungeon Mastering involves a lot of work. You have to know the rules, the abilities of the player characters, the abilities of the monsters, the lore of the world (some/all of which you may have written yourself), the story, the NPCs, the layout of wherever the players happen to be...it's almost too much to list.
Since DMing involves so much work, and keeping track of so many things, I thought I would start a threat where we could all commiserate on what aspects we find we're weakest at. Maybe we've got ways to work through it. Maybe other DMs are dealing with (or have dealt with) similar issues. This isn't meant to be an advice thread, just a place to vent your feelings.
That being said, I'll get started. For one, I suck when it comes to magic items, specifically the rules for identifying them. No matter how much I read the rules for 3.5 (both in the DMG and the Magic Item Compendium), I have yet to understand or implement them in a way that makes me happy. I get how spells like identify work, but I'm lost when it comes to whether or not the Spellcraft spell can do it on its own.
Another issue. I'm afraid of homebrews. I worry about my own experience as a DM not being sufficient to judge whether something is balanced, and therefore I tend to stick pretty close to what's in official resources. As I look toward starting 5e campaigns (and hopefully writing modules to sell), I know my fear of homebrew is going to become more of an issue than it has been in 3.5, where there are rules for everything and a nigh-infinite supply of monsters and specialty races and classes.
Finally, I just find some elements of the work daunting. I love the large scale, high-thinking elements such as coming up with cool overarching plot threads, cool settings, planes, pantheons, etc. But when it comes down to mapping a dungeon, I find it daunting. When I have to start rolling up stats for those NPCs I was all excited about, it starts feeling tedious. I love rolling on the treasure tables in the Magic Item Compendium, but figuring out where to place every item I've rolled becomes a hassle.
I'm at least dealing with my mapping issue by making less-detailed maps. I'm probably going to stop using campaign cartographer for this sort of thing and start just doing them in paint.net or something, sticking to a white floor, black walls, and grid type layout. My problem used to be that I'd get obsessive with my maps, placing every piece of furniture and pile of rubble. By letting those details go and relying more on room descriptions, I'm more able to complete the work of mapping a dungeon.
So there they are, my greatest weaknesses as a DM. What are some of yours?
|
|
|
|
Post by dmsam on Mar 9, 2016 16:26:08 GMT
I have a similar issue with homebrew, but only with classes and rulings. I am totally fine with monsters, magic items or other things, because they don't usually last as long and can be easily corrected.
As for my true weakness, I am partial to the consistency of the storyline. I don't want my story to be a incomprehensible conglomerate of ideas, and I cringe whenever things don't make sense!
|
|
|
|
Post by friartook on Mar 9, 2016 16:31:26 GMT
I'm finding my biggest issue is keeping my group in character when conducting mundane tasks such as shopping and/or environmental interactions. I can get them to interact with NPCs in character just fine, but I'm having a hard time getting them to engage with the environment. For example, if they are looking for an illegal substance or rare weapon (we play Fantasy Flight's Star Wars EotE right now), they have to make a Streetwise check. Streetwise in the EotE version of Investigation or Gather Information; it involves asking around and making contacts. I have a really hard time initiating the RP piece of this, and my players don't seem to want to take point on it either. Or if they enter a Cantina and are looking for a contact, I can't get them to do the perception checks in character. Maybe I don't need to (shopping can be boring after all), but I'd like to find a way to encourage interactions with the environments the PCs move through as a way to enhance immersion. Also, I started a thread in the past asking a similar question to this thread: That Annoying Interview Question |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2016 19:17:42 GMT
In a word, linearity.
I think my campaigns tend to feel a little rail roady. I don't outright prevent players from deviating from the script, but I put a lot of writing into my games, and that writing tends to pave a rather clear path regarding what the PCs ought to do next.
That said, my players have first class tickets! If they go along with the content I've prepared, they will consistently get vivid descriptions, interesting obstacles, engaging NPCs, etc. I'm competent enough at improvisation to deliver these elements if they deviate, just not with such consistent, high quality. So far, they've stayed on the rails.
It is my intention to have my next campaign be driven entirely by PC motivations. There won't be some imminent cataclysm or BBEG compelling them to act. Interesting events will still come to pass, many of them determined by the party's actions, but the meat of the story is going to come from them pursuing their own goals, rather than me giving them a goal.
|
|
|
|
Post by joatmoniac on Mar 9, 2016 20:51:11 GMT
Mine is procrastination for sure. I let it get way too close to the session before I start doing my prep. It helps boost the improvisation skills, but at times its rough when running a prewritten module, as improving over the top of what is already made isn't very fun, and even less fun when you have to look it up during play sessions.
I also have trouble at times managing the size of my group, and keeping them focused, but I feel like that is potentially an ebb and flow of every group. Great thread idea!
|
|
|
|
Post by frohtastic on Mar 13, 2016 22:37:16 GMT
I guess Insecurity and bouts of uncreativity.
To explain, Im still extremely new DM and I only have like 5 games under my belt irl (and 3 more in online groups) and after having most of those games kinda ruined by some players actively trying to break the game (gary stu, extreme meta gamer, the rule/setting nazi ) I kinda got burnt out a bit, which is sad because I know some players who wasnt totally crap but sadly most of those are a package deal.
and the creativity part is mostly because I can end up going long periods of time where I just cannot work on my world, be it because of work or that I myself feel that the world is just so empty and "whats the point if its not gonna be played in?"
I know my work schedule isnt exactly good for cultivating a weekly play time ( I work nights, 7 nights on, 7 nights off) and Bi-weekly seems to be with such a long gap that players feel disinterested (and leading to a bigger gap due to not showing up because meh)
Finding online groups is also hard since most online groups are centered around american timezones, which means I'd either have to stay up all night or theyd have to wake up pretty early.
|
|
|
|
Post by donosaur on Mar 14, 2016 18:57:07 GMT
I am miserable at running combat. Each of my players has just themselves to worry about, and I have a whole pack of goblins or what have you. This results in enemy mages forgetting their spells, monsters missing their turns, and things that should be making the battle challenging, like terrain or status inflictions, nonexistent because I can't track them and apply them consistently. When I forget that the floor is covered in webs for one PC, it's not fair for me to enact that penalty on another, so I have to forget it. Same with visibility, everyone has darkvision all the time because it's too much trouble to track. How does anyone actually keep up with all of it?
|
|
|
|
Post by preehofthetrees on Mar 18, 2016 15:33:54 GMT
I am miserable at running combat. Each of my players has just themselves to worry about, and I have a whole pack of goblins or what have you. This results in enemy mages forgetting their spells, monsters missing their turns, and things that should be making the battle challenging, like terrain or status inflictions, nonexistent because I can't track them and apply them consistently. When I forget that the floor is covered in webs for one PC, it's not fair for me to enact that penalty on another, so I have to forget it. Same with visibility, everyone has darkvision all the time because it's too much trouble to track. How does anyone actually keep up with all of it? Ditto this for me, I use milk jug/Gatorade cap rings to remind me of statuses but things like fears on monsters go way over my head. |
|
|
|
Post by janewalksfar on Mar 26, 2016 3:37:53 GMT
Combat is a tricky one for me too. The cognitive overload quickly descends into "you hit, roll damage" and "you miss" because I have too much on my mind to narrate. However, my characters have been using the gladiatorial combats in one town to make money, and running those one-on-one combats has given me some much-needed practice describing battles.
My biggest problem is a rather general one: getting befuddled when players throw me off balance. For example, the heroes ran into a "big bad" last session. He's an automaton on a mechanical horse. The tinker gnome realized this and began ripping out the horse's mechanics. I allowed him to disable a 7th level foe with a single skill check because I wasn't sure how to handle it. On one hand, I want to embrace player's ingenuity (say "yes" so to speak) but on the other hand it completely undermined the challenge/drama of the encounter. Also giving that kind of creativity allows the player whose good at that kind of thinking (and has far more RP experience than my other players) to steal the spotlight.
Plus I feel like my long pauses and talking-out-loud during those befuddled moments undermines my authority(?) (implied neutrality?) as a DM? Like I'm either being arbitrary or purposefully thwarting the heroes when I'm finally like, "that won't work."
|
|
|
|
Post by friartook on Mar 26, 2016 4:25:43 GMT
Plus I feel like my long pauses and talking-out-loud during those befuddled moments undermines my authority(?) (implied neutrality?) as a DM? Like I'm either being arbitrary or purposefully thwarting the heroes when I'm finally like, "that won't work." I don't want to derail this thread...aw who am I kidding, I always want to derail all threads when something interesting comes up  I feel this is such a key DM/GM issue you are addressing here. The "authority" of the DM. Where do we draw the line? Many of us talk a lot about collaborative storytelling and world building with our players, but what about when that "but I'm the DM so I am God" card needs to get played? Since allowing my players more narrative control over our game, I've gotten a lot more push back when I place a narrative block in their way, or when I deny them an action. The tack I take when these discussions come up is that the GM is not the players' adversary. I am not their enemy. I control their character's enemies, but my goal is not to make their lives hard or to block them, or kill them or deny them loot or whatever the grievance of the day is. My goal is to tell a fun and interesting story and to have fun playing a game around a table with my friends. And what fun is a game without challenge? Little kids want to play on easy mode. Adults want Dark Souls. Well, certain kinds of adults... I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts, ideas and experiences surrounding this issue! |
|
|
|
Post by onyxangel24 on Mar 26, 2016 15:32:47 GMT
For me, one of my weaknesses is I tend to try to wait till I get closer to my turn around the table to actually start studying the campaign Im going to be running next. I have been working on not waiting, because I screwed up so bad in one of the games I ran due ot my lack of participation & I am determined not to make that mistake again.
|
|
|
|
Post by janewalksfar on Mar 26, 2016 16:04:58 GMT
Plus I feel like my long pauses and talking-out-loud during those befuddled moments undermines my authority(?) (implied neutrality?) as a DM? Like I'm either being arbitrary or purposefully thwarting the heroes when I'm finally like, "that won't work." I don't want to derail this thread...aw who am I kidding, I always want to derail all threads when something interesting comes up I feel this is such a key DM/GM issue you are addressing here. The "authority" of the DM. Where do we draw the line? Many of us talk a lot about collaborative storytelling and world building with our players, but what about when that "but I'm the DM so I am God" card needs to get played? Since allowing my players more narrative control over our game, I've gotten a lot more push back when I place a narrative block in their way, or when I deny them an action. The tack I take when these discussions come up is that the GM is not the players' adversary. I am not their enemy. I control their character's enemies, but my goal is not to make their lives hard or to block them, or kill them or deny them loot or whatever the grievance of the day is. My goal is to tell a fun and interesting story and to have fun playing a game around a table with my friends. And what fun is a game without challenge? Little kids want to play on easy mode. Adults want Dark Souls. Well, certain kinds of adults... I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts, ideas and experiences surrounding this issue!
Yes, I see this too. I take a very collaborative approach to DMing. When we run into something that doesn't quite fit the rules, I tend to open up the table for discussion. The folks I run are all close friends and fellow DMs, so we enjoy putting things on pause every now and then to "nerd out." My approach honestly gave me pause when I started to write "authority" in my 1st post because I don't think of it as authority most of the time. Certainly I've never thought of my heroes as adversaries...as probably illustrated by the fact I think of them as "my heroes" rather than "PCs."
It's like a classroom though. Being the "cool teacher" has its disadvantages when I do have to put my foot down. One of my players, who is a brutal DM, gets mad-sulky whenever that happens. For example, his character has an addiction and in the last game they did a bunch of off-track traveling that took them away from the climate where he's been able to successfully gather the plants he needs to alchemize the drug. When I asked him to check his inventory of ingredients and responded incredulously when he didn't even have it written down, he slammed a book down and muttered, "I didn't think it mattered." I responded, "You have to keep track of these things" but in my mind I was raging, "This started as a survivalist game. Remember when you almost died of dehydration? I eased up on that aspect the last few games because you're higher level and I decided to speed up travel so your companion's lollygagging personal side-quest didn't derail the entire game."
So that's a good example of how my tendency to let things slide in service of the narrative ends up seeming arbitrary when I do have to make a judgment call not in favor of the heroes.
|
|
|
|
Post by friartook on Mar 27, 2016 21:31:17 GMT
janewalksfar: would you mind elaborating on your player who is a "Brutal DM"? I have reactions to that story. I had a whole response written, but I realized my reaction was colored by my notion of what constitutes a "Brutal DM". Care to elaborate and/or define?
|
|
|
|
Post by janewalksfar on Mar 27, 2016 22:40:47 GMT
janewalksfar : would you mind elaborating on your player who is a "Brutal DM"? I have reactions to that story. I had a whole response written, but I realized my reaction was colored by my notion of what constitutes a "Brutal DM". Care to elaborate and/or define?
Sure. I say brutal because every battle is practically a battle to the death--I'm not sure if it's because he doesn't understand CR levels (which are admittedly a bit wonky some time and require adjustment because we're a party of 2) or because he likes to roll out badass NPCs. Generally he runs combat-heavy games where attempts at negotiating or gathering information to gain an advantage are thwarted. Since I play a rouge/swashbuckler and my friend plays a monk, combat-only solutions against half a dozen high-level barbarians often end poorly. I inherited a powerful magic item a while back and he creates novel ways for me to not be able to use it--or even have it identified in a large cosmopolitan city where our characters have lived for two years.
So honestly with further contemplation, "brutal DM" may not be the best term. Rather, when I think empathically, he's a struggling DMing who understands and enjoys combat best, so it seems brutal (to me as a story centered player) when my rouge's just trying to buy a wedding gift for her sweetheart and gets jumped by assassins.
But explicating from all that, I think a "brutal DM" is a DM who views PCs as adversaries, pulls out never-before-relevant rules to hamper PC goals, or continually creates encounters/challenges that drain PCs of agency or heroic moments.
And I think agency and heroism are the heart of that. There's definitely a time and place for "Empire Strikes Back" moments, but those must be coupled (at least in a standard "high fantasy" setting where it's a reasonable expectation) with Ewok parties on Endor. Those moments of defeat should serve the narrative and create drama/tension rather than leave players feeling helpless or frustrated.
|
|
|
|
Post by friartook on Mar 28, 2016 0:20:06 GMT
Ok, that confirms my reaction. Here's my take:
First, I feel that sitting both sides of the screen puts a certain onus on a player to engage the game with respect; to "set a good example". If you've DMed, you know how frustrating certain player behaviors can be. Engaging in those behaviors as a player would really be a red flag for me. Likely something we'd need to have a chat about.
Second, this feeds off the first, the whole "I didn't think it was big deal" regarding inventory management: a DM should know better. I would show no mercy and have no sympathy in this situation.
Anyway, that was my big "reaction". I don't like hearing about DMs behaving badly as players. I have a table full of players who had never played TTRPGs before I brought the group together. I've made huge allowances because of this; ret-cons, redoing skill checks, allowing actions to be taken back, etc. I've done less and less of this as they've become more experienced role players, because they've learned their lesson through a few times where I was "brutal" myself. But, like I said, an experienced player, especially a DM should know better.
|
|
