Samuel Wise
Demigod
Ready to Help...
Posts: 989
Favorite D&D Class: Warlock
Favorite D&D Race: Mousefolk
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Post by Samuel Wise on Aug 25, 2015 5:53:11 GMT
Great Episode! I've just might been converted into Paladinism. Another great DMnastics! (And I'm geeking out over the Zelda theme music). -Ah! Balfrus. We know all about your goblin-stained past... Just kidding . -As a huge sci-fi fan I absolutely loved the story time and it is probably one of my favorites. Which reminds me... -I will kill that Space Squid!!! -Hired Heroes: Age of Food Mage? I'm excited! And when will you release the Gnome Depot cut? -Another option for what happens when two Paladins fight each other is for BOTH of their powers are taken away. Until they make amends. -Ooh! And take the last idea a step further. Paladin Gladiators! Again great episode and DMnastics. With a whole month, however... There will be a lot of DMB zombies. Great Job!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2015 6:40:40 GMT
I want more class episodes!
Caleb has good taste. Paladins are skullf#$%ingly awesome and never get boring for me, though I don't play them exclusively. That said, I was building a cleric for the next DM's campaign (we're doing a rotating DM every level, and bouncing among characters). However, after listening to this episode, I couldn't help myself... he's a paladin now. Aasimar no less. I'm psyched up to play the paragon-of-good type again.
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Post by joatmoniac on Aug 25, 2015 6:41:34 GMT
I want more class episodes! Caleb has good taste. Paladins are skullf#$%ingly awesome and never get boring for me, though I don't play them exclusively. That said, I was building a cleric for the next DM's campaign (we're doing a rotating DM every level, and bouncing among characters). However, after listening to this episode, I couldn't help myself... he's a paladin now. Aasimar no less. I'm psyched up to play the paragon-of-good type again. BAM! Quote code moved into this thread!! I agree, hopefully the class series will be a thing, as it would be great to hear more about other classes from different perspectives (DM, player.) Awesome that it motivated you to change your class, haha. Great Episode! I've just might been converted into Paladinism. Another great DMnastics! (And I'm geeking out over the Zelda theme music). -Ah! Balfrus. We know all about your goblin-stained past... Just kidding . -As a huge sci-fi fan I absolutely loved the story time and it is probably one of my favorites. Which reminds me... -I will kill that Space Squid!!! -Hired Heroes: Age of Food Mage? I'm excited! And when will you release the Gnome Depot cut? -Another option for what happens when two Paladins fight each other is for BOTH of their powers are taken away. Until they make amends. -Ooh! And take the last idea a step further. Paladin Gladiators! Again great episode and DMnastics. With a whole month, however... There will be a lot of DMB zombies. Great Job! Glad you liked the Zelda music, took some time to decide on the right sound effect to use, haha. Go super old school, or go Ocarina of Time, but then that didn't really hit home, so it was all about the old school! Great idea to take the power away from both paladins as they fight to be the true champion of their deity. I'm very excited for the things on the horizon, and what will come out during the break from the main episodes, and when the DMB returns! Edit: Haha, great minds! That post will live on forever Nevvur!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2015 7:16:08 GMT
Off topic, but with Episode 6 getting reposted... The difference in sound quality is amazing between the present, and back then.
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Post by DMC on Aug 25, 2015 14:35:57 GMT
I'd love to see more Class episodes! Paladins are the bee's knees for sure. While the notion of no more alignment restrictions took a while to sit well with me (OG AD&D foundation), it grew on me.
That being said...what's your all's opinion on what kind of being can actually grant powers? Is it deities only? Major Fiends/Celestials? Are there Clerics of Orcus? Paladins of Demogorgon?
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Post by Vulash on Aug 25, 2015 14:41:02 GMT
The class is balanced now vs other classes, so it makes sense that you could open it up to other alignments. I like the ideas in the episode of giving these different names if they aren't LG, but we're basically talking about the same concept - a holy champion of a god, and god's outside of the good and lawful ones could, and probably would, have champions. I really enjoyed the episode.
One thing to keep in mind is that back in the day it was very difficult to play a paladin. They were not balanced - they were POWERFUL, but they had incredibly difficult stat restrictions, and they also had very difficult RP restrictions. You could play one, and it would be really powerful, but you had to strictly follow that code or lose it all. Also, in some of the earlier editions you were supposed to roll for your numbers in order, and your class could be determined that way. To actually roll a paladin would have been a rare thing - so it was kind of special.
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Post by kjmagle on Aug 25, 2015 15:27:02 GMT
I also would like to see more class episodes or race episodes or mix of the 2.
I like this because I have a Paladin in my group and the first thing she did when she met the group as destroy an evil relic the other player had when asked to look at it.
Made for great fun.
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Post by catcharlie on Aug 25, 2015 16:14:50 GMT
I haven't finished the episode yet but very much enjoying it. I had never really looking into Paladins much, but I might linger on the paladin pages a bit more now.
Also like kjmagle said, I would like to see some more Class/Race focused episodes.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2015 18:26:30 GMT
I'd love to see more Class episodes! Paladins are the bee's knees for sure. While the notion of no more alignment restrictions took a while to sit well with me (OG AD&D foundation), it grew on me. That being said...what's your all's opinion on what kind of being can actually grant powers? Is it deities only? Major Fiends/Celestials? Are there Clerics of Orcus? Paladins of Demogorgon? As of 5th edition, paladin magic comes from their convictions. It's the reason they no longer need wisdom for spellcasting. The power resides within them, and their boons are not necessarily the providence of a deity (they can be, but not required). The 5e PHB even says as much, (The Cause of Righteousness) "...a paladin's power comes as much from a commitment to justice itself as it does from a god." Replace justice with whatever philosophy the paladin upholds, in the case of non-traditional types. An analogy: paladins are to clerics, as psions are to wizards. The first class in each set uses internal powers, the second uses external. With that in mind, I wouldn't shoot down any idea a player had as to the subject of his convictions. However, it should be appropriate to the mood of the campaign. If I'm running a comedy/satire campaign, a paladin could draw his power from belief in the awesomeness of door knobs. Otherwise, any subject suitable for worship and faith works for me. I'm perfectly fine with paladin powers coming entirely from a philosophy or their oath. Granted, the quote above says "...as much from [conviction] as it does from a god," so there's still an assumption a god is involved. I just wouldn't require it. If the narrative of the story, or the metaphysics of the paladin does call for a powerful, sentient entity granting his powers, non-deities are okay, but shouldn't be low on the totem pole of planar power. Archangels and archfiends work fine, but it would stretch credibility if the paladin could defeat his own patron in single combat.
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Post by joatmoniac on Aug 25, 2015 19:40:42 GMT
The class is balanced now vs other classes, so it makes sense that you could open it up to other alignments. I like the ideas in the episode of giving these different names if they aren't LG, but we're basically talking about the same concept - a holy champion of a god, and god's outside of the good and lawful ones could, and probably would, have champions. I really enjoyed the episode. One thing to keep in mind is that back in the day it was very difficult to play a paladin. They were not balanced - they were POWERFUL, but they had incredibly difficult stat restrictions, and they also had very difficult RP restrictions. You could play one, and it would be really powerful, but you had to strictly follow that code or lose it all. Also, in some of the earlier editions you were supposed to roll for your numbers in order, and your class could be determined that way. To actually roll a paladin would have been a rare thing - so it was kind of special. The old 3d6 straight seems crazy compared to now, and it was in fact crazy, haha. Here is an awesome article with charts showing how unlikely it was to qualify for certain classes. Seems like the monk was about as hard as the paladin through early editions. muleabides.wordpress.com/2012/02/11/you-must-be-this-lucky-to-play/
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Post by Vulash on Aug 25, 2015 21:02:30 GMT
The class is balanced now vs other classes, so it makes sense that you could open it up to other alignments. I like the ideas in the episode of giving these different names if they aren't LG, but we're basically talking about the same concept - a holy champion of a god, and god's outside of the good and lawful ones could, and probably would, have champions. I really enjoyed the episode. One thing to keep in mind is that back in the day it was very difficult to play a paladin. They were not balanced - they were POWERFUL, but they had incredibly difficult stat restrictions, and they also had very difficult RP restrictions. You could play one, and it would be really powerful, but you had to strictly follow that code or lose it all. Also, in some of the earlier editions you were supposed to roll for your numbers in order, and your class could be determined that way. To actually roll a paladin would have been a rare thing - so it was kind of special. The old 3d6 straight seems crazy compared to now, and it was in fact crazy, haha. Here is an awesome article with charts showing how unlikely it was to qualify for certain classes. Seems like the monk was about as hard as the paladin through early editions. muleabides.wordpress.com/2012/02/11/you-must-be-this-lucky-to-play/Nice find! I actually had it built up even worse in my memory - I thought it was the 17 cha plus some other stuff
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Post by DMC on Aug 25, 2015 21:33:29 GMT
I'd love to see more Class episodes! Paladins are the bee's knees for sure. While the notion of no more alignment restrictions took a while to sit well with me (OG AD&D foundation), it grew on me. That being said...what's your all's opinion on what kind of being can actually grant powers? Is it deities only? Major Fiends/Celestials? Are there Clerics of Orcus? Paladins of Demogorgon? As of 5th edition, paladin magic comes from their convictions. It's the reason they no longer need wisdom for spellcasting. The power resides within them, and their boons are not necessarily the providence of a deity (they can be, but not required). The 5e PHB even says as much, (The Cause of Righteousness) "...a paladin's power comes as much from a commitment to justice itself as it does from a god." Replace justice with whatever philosophy the paladin upholds, in the case of non-traditional types. An analogy: paladins are to clerics, as psions are to wizards. The first class in each set uses internal powers, the second uses external. With that in mind, I wouldn't shoot down any idea a player had as to the subject of his convictions. However, it should be appropriate to the mood of the campaign. If I'm running a comedy/satire campaign, a paladin could draw his power from belief in the awesomeness of door knobs. Otherwise, any subject suitable for worship and faith works for me. I'm perfectly fine with paladin powers coming entirely from a philosophy or their oath. Granted, the quote above says "...as much from [conviction] as it does from a god," so there's still an assumption a god is involved. I just wouldn't require it. If the narrative of the story, or the metaphysics of the paladin does call for a powerful, sentient entity granting his powers, non-deities are okay, but shouldn't be low on the totem pole of planar power. Archangels and archfiends work fine, but it would stretch credibility if the paladin could defeat his own patron in single combat. Excellent, thanks! That's about on-track with how I was picturing it as well. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't way off the reservation.
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Skedrix
Squire
Posts: 40
Favorite D&D Class: Runepriest
Favorite D&D Race: Warforged
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Post by Skedrix on Aug 25, 2015 21:59:36 GMT
I'll add my voice to the chorus of "More Class/Race Episodes!" It's episodes like these that end up being permanently saved on my phone, and re-listened to regularly. DM Mitch and Paladin Caleb also touched on non-standard usage for the Paladin--something that I'd really like to see in future Class/Race episodes, should there be any. Non-standard usage ideas like this are key to building a world with a unique flavor, like the Drow of Eberron being primitive, scorpion-worshiping jungle-dwellers, or the Minotaurs of Krynn (Dragonlance) being seafarers. The Unearthed Arcana: Warterborne Adventures listed great reasons for the non-standard usage of Minotaurs: "Casting minotaurs as mariners has some interesting implications for a setting. The Labyrinthine Recall ability makes minotaurs perfect sailors, as they can travel the seas with little fear of becoming lost or losing their way." So using the mechanics to justify non-standard usage (or the other way around works, too), can make a world unique. Also, to anyone who absolutely loves Paladins, anyone who is on the fence about Paladins, anyone who is completely anti-Paladin but still willing to listen to someone try to convince them otherwise, or anyone who wants to read a captivating story about someone else's D&D campaign, lemme just leave this Powder Keg of Justice right here....
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2015 2:24:25 GMT
Very cool story, Skedrix, glad you shared. I wish I could improvise a speech like that.
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Post by friartook on Aug 27, 2015 3:31:29 GMT
That being said...what's your all's opinion on what kind of being can actually grant powers? Is it deities only? Major Fiends/Celestials? Are there Clerics of Orcus? Paladins of Demogorgon? As of 5th edition, paladin magic comes from their convictions. It's the reason they no longer need wisdom for spellcasting. The power resides within them, and their boons are not necessarily the providence of a deity (they can be, but not required). The 5e PHB even says as much, (The Cause of Righteousness) "...a paladin's power comes as much from a commitment to justice itself as it does from a god." Replace justice with whatever philosophy the paladin upholds, in the case of non-traditional types. I'll second Nevvur's take on it, but then, that "Does a Paladin need to follow a deity?" question was mine I loved getting my take on D&D divinity both shut down and shouted out in the same episode! In the end, I agree with the assessment that Paladins are, for better or worse, defined by their affinity with a deity. However, I also agree that whatever a DM and his/her players want for a campaign is fair game! Oh, and I'm thinking a Paladin of the Holy Doorknob may make an NPC appearance some time in the future. LOL!
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