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Post by DMC on Aug 22, 2015 14:14:04 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2015 5:38:25 GMT
It all seems pretty obvious in hindsight, like the article says.
I think the video game industry has the greatest impact on TTRPG development these days, which I find amusing since many video games take their cues from TTRPGs.
Power balancing is a major consideration of VRPGs, and I think it stems at least partially from the fact they don't have a human mind to make on the fly adjustments to account for power variation. Any given scenario in the VRPG has to be challenging to a fighter and a wizard alike, because the development resources necessary to create unique challenges for each class would be.... huge. Sure, some genius who can bend reality with his mind ought to be more powerful than a strong doofus with a sword, but it would almost require making two games to address that 'realistically'
The TTRPG medium has been more resilient to the necessity of power balancing, because the GM has the ability to create interesting challenges even when a power differential exists. However, video games informed the preferences of every generation of gamers since they became a thing. The notion of balancing power among the classes and races in TTRPGs certainly predates VRPGs, but it wasn't such a fundamental aspect of TTRPG system design until much later.
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Post by joatmoniac on Aug 23, 2015 7:34:16 GMT
I don't know that I would be able to claim that the video game industry has the greatest impact, but I think that is because I don't know that any one thing could have the greatest impact on the TTRPG development. I think that for D&D that the video games impact showed itself in the number crunching mathmagician era of 3/3.5E and culminated into it's peak in the very homogenized 4E classes and build that felt very much like a video game on paper. It felt to me like the game was ebbing away from role playing and getting closer to mechanics being more important. I also think that 5E does a solid job of shifting attention back to what role playing more than its predecessors. I also think that DMs had it much rougher in some ways, but much easier than other back in the proverbial day. While it was an uphill journey both ways in the snow to get materials for a game that trek made the players and DM rely more on the resources readily available rather than click click sit everything I've ever wanted is on my doorstep two days from now, haha.
Really cool article, and now I will have my eye out for those break points to see if the players still feel like they are all on a fairly even playing field.
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Post by friartook on Aug 25, 2015 2:25:41 GMT
My fighter PC's player noticed this issue right away. He saw all the other classes at the table gaining in power and doing more damage. He asked me about it when we went to 5th level. I mentioned his second attack. He said, "Yeah, but how do I increase my actual attack damage?" I said, "It is increased. It just doubled."
I'm happy with the class balance that 5e has brought about. 4e took balance too far IMHO, and made all the classes feel the same; advanced fighter abilities read like spells and low level spells read like attacks. 5e makes it so the classes are close on the power curve, but maintains unique flavor for each class.
That being said, I loved the flavor of the imbalanced earlier editions. I loved how a mage was a scrawny wuss with low HP and almost no ability to meaningfully attack with weapons but, at higher levels, they had multiple one use nuclear weapons. The imbalance among the classes made party balance a real piece of game strategy. If you were going into a dungeon, and you didn't have a rogue or a cleric, it was standard practice for the DM to provide "hirelings". NPCs who could fill the missing roles. Because they were NEEDED.
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Post by Vulash on Aug 25, 2015 13:56:35 GMT
I really enjoy the way that 5e has balanced classes and also given them distinct flavor, but I also do miss the slow reward of playing a wizard in 2e. I felt like in 3e you were still scrawny at low levels, and never got the payoff because every thing could resist you and had so many more HP at higher level. It felt like a higher (or medium) level melee class was balanced with the Wizard, especially with all the feats they got, but the wizard still suffered the early levels. 5e feels nice.
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Post by frohtastic on Aug 25, 2015 22:47:35 GMT
dont the fighters get more chances to get feats since they get more often ability score increases?
Edit:
Which granted that the 5e feats aint necessarily something to go "omgwtfbbq" about, there are a lot of good ones though.
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Post by joatmoniac on Aug 26, 2015 1:51:33 GMT
In the 20 lvl progression chart Fighters end up with Ability Score Improvements compared to the other classes getting four. I agree that there aren't any absolutely over the top feats, but it definitely helps to build a specific type of fighter. If nothing else you could easily look at a fighter with at least two stats with a raw score of 20. Trying to decide if I would go CON or DEX after maxing out my STR. Than again I would undoubtedly be a dwarf and my CON would be easy enough to max out, haha. Lighter armor, tons of hp, and the ability to carry the entire party is hard to scoff at!
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Post by frohtastic on Aug 26, 2015 1:54:16 GMT
In the 20 lvl progression chart Fighters end up with Ability Score Improvements compared to the other classes getting four. I agree that there aren't any absolutely over the top feats, but it definitely helps to build a specific type of fighter. If nothing else you could easily look at a fighter with at least two stats with a raw score of 20. Trying to decide if I would go CON or DEX after maxing out my STR. Than again I would undoubtedly be a dwarf and my CON would be easy enough to max out, haha. Lighter armor, tons of hp, and the ability to carry the entire party is hard to scoff at! get fullplate and just increase your con  There are some feats in the phb that are just pretty awesome (like tavern brawler) But mostly its not like "okay, you get +2 damage to x attacks" like in 3.5 or such. But then again feats like warcaster or mage slayer is pretty awesome, as well as polearm master. |
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