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Post by dmzinthos on May 14, 2015 12:29:57 GMT
Can anyone explain? I've read and reread the rules on this and I'm super confused. The spell reads the way j understand it that basically, wizard casts it, and then I have to be honest about what is going to happen in the next 30 minutes of game time. Any subsequent castings gives it an additional 25% chance of a random answer coming out. Is this right?
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Augury
May 14, 2015 14:46:36 GMT
Post by DMC on May 14, 2015 14:46:36 GMT
Can anyone explain? I've read and reread the rules on this and I'm super confused. The spell reads the way j understand it that basically, wizard casts it, and then I have to be honest about what is going to happen in the next 30 minutes of game time. Any subsequent castings gives it an additional 25% chance of a random answer coming out. Is this right? That's correct. You don't have to give details, (in fact the spell specifically does not state anything about details. There are higher level spells like Commune and Divination for that stuff), but you do have to be honest. And as I'm looking at the PHB, it's a 2nd Level Cleric spell, not Wizard. From what I see, the Cleric is the only class that gains this spell. For instance, if the group of 3rd Level PCs are in a dungeon with two doors, with the door on the left being a room with the hungry Tarrasque, and the room on the right being a healing fountain...if the PCs decide to go left, and the Cleric casts Augury before they do, you need to give him the Woe omen because unmistakable death looms behind that door. If they chose to go right and he casts the spell, you should give the Weal omen. Those omens should also try and be telegraphed to the player in a fashion that suits the god they worship. For instance if the chose the right door with healing, perhaps the Cleric of Pelor notices the likeness of a sun in the gnarled wood grain of the doorframe. Or a shaft of sunlight from an air vent falls upon the door, when it was rainy outside when you went in.EDIT: You know what, I totally misread what the spell actually does. Forget all the stricken stuff (though it is flavor-cool). You're supposed to be reading bones, tea leaves, tarot-like cards, etc. Not having something else happen to indicate which is a good or bad direction. However, make sure the PC is specific in what he's asking to divine answers to. "Are we going to win all fights in the next 30-minutes?" is far too vague for a definitive answer in either direction. In fact, anything to do with dice rolling is a sketchy notion to try and give an answer to. In those cases, because the dice can be either for you or against you, I'd give the Weal & Woe result, because you never know which way the dice will go.
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Augury
May 14, 2015 15:10:09 GMT
Post by dmzinthos on May 14, 2015 15:10:09 GMT
That makes life infinitely easier. He asked about the spell, looked it up and saw Divination school and thought it meant for wizards divination. That is amazing. Thanks.
I guess that still leaves it open to story breaking aspects though, right? Can they ask at level 2 "where is the main bad guy (insert name here)?" but the main guy is level 10 and they go and get killed. Or avoid the story all together because they dont want to run into him at all. So... What do I tell them? Still vague?
In your example of the two doors, how would I do a whoe and weal? Or when would that take place? If they ask "Where is the crown Im going after?" I would say "Its located in a caveish thing but guarded by something big and ugly-ish thingy"?
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Augury
May 14, 2015 17:10:50 GMT
Post by DMC on May 14, 2015 17:10:50 GMT
Let's look at the description.
By casting gem-inlaid sticks, rolling dragon bones, laying out ornate cards, or employing some other divining tool, you receive an omen from an otherworldly entity about the results of a specific course of action that you plan to take within the next 30 minutes. The DM chooses from the following possible omens:
• Weal, for good results • Woe, for bad results • Weal and woe, for both good and bad results • Nothing, for results that aren't especially good or bad
The spell doesn't take into account any possible circumstances that might change the outcome, such as the casting of additional spells or the loss or gain of a companion.
"Where is the main bad guy?" isn't something that an Augury can answer. Think of it as giving answers to "YES" or "NO" only questions. "Will we find the BBEG in the next 30 minutes?" is more appropriate. As the DM, you can then make a judgement call on if you think the party will or not. If he's in the next room in the direction they're headed, then give a Weal. If he's still days and levels away, give a Woe. If there's a possibility of getting 10 rooms over to where he is, but who knows how long it will take to actually get there given how long/short combat and how ADHD parties can sometimes be, give both. LOL
Don't give any details other than Woe, Weal, Both, or None. Those are the only 4 honest answers you're required to give the PCs.
Example #1: The Two Doors Party: "We have two choices before us. Priest, can your god give us any favor on which to chose? We've had good luck going left so far. Should we continue that course?" Cleric: "Perhaps. Let me check." *Cleric casts Augury, scattering some gems into a silver bowl and asking for divine guidance for this decision.* DM: Your gems scatter into the bowl, coalescing into a distinctly disturbing face-shaped pattern visage. You get the feeling that going left is a bad move. Cleric: "The gems say to the left lies our doom."
Example #2: The Crown of Power Party: "We have searched for hours, and for naught. Priest, can your god aid us in discerning the whereabouts of the Crown?" Cleric: "I can try." *Cleric casts Augury, scattering some gems into a silver bowl while he prays to his god for the answer.* DM: Your gems scatter into the bowl. However you get no definitive suggestion either way. Cleric: "My god is strangely silent on this matter. It is left to us to discover its location.
Now, I will say, that Cleric's will know how their spells work. So a Cleric should know that an answer to those types of questions can't be gleaned from the Augury spell. So it's left to the Cleric, and the party, to phrase questions in a way that the spell will work. I wouldn't have them waste a spell slot on something he would know won't work that way. Even if their character would know, if the player forgets, it's ok to remind them of the fact that it needs to be phrased differently.
The short answer is, it's more or less a "YES" or "NO" answering spell. Does that help?
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Post by dmzinthos on May 14, 2015 17:53:41 GMT
Yup! Thanks! I thought it was supposed to be a divine knowledge transfer or something. "Hey God, where's the closest loot?" And the clerics God answers "two lefts, a right, and then some bad guys." Your answer sounds much better than mine
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Augury
May 14, 2015 18:04:22 GMT
Post by DMC on May 14, 2015 18:04:22 GMT
Yup! Thanks! I thought it was supposed to be a divine knowledge transfer or something. "Hey God, where's the closest loot?" And the clerics God answers "two lefts, a right, and then some bad guys." Your answer sounds much better than mine That's what spells like Commune and Divination are for, for example. To give those types of features to a 2nd level spell, would negate the usefulness of the more powerful ones. Glad to be of assistance! PS - That's just my take. I'm always curious to others' opinions as well!
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Post by joatmoniac on May 19, 2015 17:46:46 GMT
I think for the spell, and spells like it, to go well for everyone is to try and keep a solid amount of RP involved as with the Examples above. Also, it is really cool to try and role play the god that the player is trying to commune with. It is much more fun if the god isn't good per se, and has their own designs and perspectives.
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Augury
May 19, 2015 23:31:24 GMT
Post by frohtastic on May 19, 2015 23:31:24 GMT
have you considered inserting tarot cards into the mix? that way it is up to the players own interpertation but they cant say that you werent honest.
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Post by dmzinthos on May 19, 2015 23:35:14 GMT
How many cards would I create? Doesn't that lend to either more complication or not working in the spirit of the spell (no pun intended)? I do think that tarot cards as a mechanic are pretty amazing, and now want to figure out how to work them in.
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Augury
May 19, 2015 23:49:53 GMT
Post by frohtastic on May 19, 2015 23:49:53 GMT
How many cards would I create? Doesn't that lend to either more complication or not working in the spirit of the spell (no pun intended)? I do think that tarot cards as a mechanic are pretty amazing, and now want to figure out how to work them in. Well, a standard deck has 78 cards, whereas 22 of them are major cards, so I'd go with 22 And as for meaningsSome standard readings are to draw 3 cards with the meanings depending on which way they are faced when you lay them on the table. So if an action leads to imprisonment I would have the cards: Reversed: Wheel of fortune Upright: Devil and the Tower. Which could mean Bad luck leading to a disasterous change into bondage.
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