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Post by dm_mainprize on Apr 14, 2015 2:33:02 GMT
I dont know how many of you have heard of a video game called Dota or Dota 2. It is the game that all other members of the MOBA(multiplayer online battle arena) genre are based off of and started as a mod for starcraft back in the day. Those games include League of Legends, Heroes of Newearth, Demigods, Smite, Awesomenauts, Dawngate and many more. These games are like a combination of Chess, Basketball and D&D. They all generally have heroes who have abilities and spell they can cast and use during the game. We have heard some awesome lore on the cast from league of legends(basically the cousin of Dota). I have started working on a project to take the hero abilities from Dota 2 and turn them into spells for 5th edition D&D. This process when completed will yield about 440 new spells, I have completed the first set of them and desperately need some feedback on them. Attached is the PDF containing the spells for all the heroes whose name starts with A. Please give them a browse and let me know what you think. Any part of the spell is subject to change and revision based on feedback or play-testing. Dungeons and Dota
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Post by joatmoniac on Apr 14, 2015 6:32:45 GMT
Holy crap this is awesome! I haven't played those games, but know of them and have dabbled in the full circle come around game of Heroes of the Storm. This is an amazing project and I hope I can lend some time to check over these spells.
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Post by dm_mainprize on Apr 16, 2015 23:32:53 GMT
Just completed the spells for all the letter "B" heroes and figured I would post it here. So far the pdf is 30mb and Contains artwork for each hero and 52 new spells that should work with the rules and mechanics of 5e. This has been a challenge but has been really rewarding. please enjoy and let me know what you think or if you use any of these spells. Dungeons and Dota V1.2
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Post by dm_mainprize on Apr 17, 2015 22:24:51 GMT
Just completed the spells for all the letter "C" heroes. PDF is now around 45mb due to including a nice HD picture of each hero. In total it contains 76 new spells. I am noticing that I have been putting a large majority of the spell into the schools of evocation(not surprising) and transmutation(kinda surprising.) I plan on going back through and really analyzing what each spell is doing and see if it should be changed to illusion, divination or one of the other schools of magic. I also think I need to find a set rule for how to handle range. Been just going with my gut but would like to have a set rule I follow so that all the spells behave and operate under a set of guidelines. Lastly, when I finish all the spells I am going to attempt to distribute them amongst the classes found within 5e. Here is the link to the current version. Dungeons and Dota v1.3
Also let me add that there is surprisingly little info in the 5e DMG on homebrewing spells. Like less than 5 paragraphs. I would like to have more info. Like when to use Force damage over another type of damage, how to determine what kind of effect failing or succeeding a saving throw should have and what class to give access to spells you create.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2015 4:55:10 GMT
Last link is buggy.
I recommend adding an index that cross references the spells with which class spell lists they appear on.
You wrote a number of spells that last X rounds. Virtually every spell with a duration longer than instantaneous lasts for concentration, until a saving throw is made, permanent/until dispelled, or start/end of target/caster next turn. It's extra bookkeeping. Not a lot, but not in the spirit of 5e, either.
Here are a few thoughts on the first few champions spells, commenting as they appear in order in the document.
Misty Coil: Increase range to 30 feet Borrowed Time: Text is unclear, which of these is the intended effect? To still take the damage, then heal some of it back? Or to negate the damage entirely, and instead gain back half of what you would have taken?
Acid Spray: Reduce radius to 20 feet. Make note that AC cannot be reduced below non-armor AC. Reconsider name due to closeness of Acid Splash. Greevil's Greed: Hillarious, but kind of pointless unless you've got a seriously stingy DM. Make it a level 2 spell. Unstable Concoction: Change to success save = creatures is only poisoned, instead of stunned Chemical Rage: casting spells to regain spell slots = no (even if it is only a 25% chance). Not sure about replacement.
Chilling Touch: Reconsider name due to closeness of Chill Touch. Ice Vortex: Is it supposed to be a concentration spell?
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Post by dm_mainprize on Apr 18, 2015 13:22:34 GMT
Thanks for the feedback nevvur, I have been struggling with the timing of the spells because in Dota that happen instantly but their effects last over a period of time but I for sure want to give them a rework. My next big step is the index of what class has access to what spells. That is going to be a challenge because the DMG gives no advice or info on how to best decide this. I think they assume people will pick a class then make a new spell for that class and I am going the opposite direction. As for the feedback on direct spells these are things that need alteration and things I didn't even notice so thank thank thank you for lending your eyes to them. That outside perspective is what I needed. Also I will post a new link to version 1.3 today when I get the chance. Also I think something that will really help me is undertaking the task of reading through every spell in the PHB just too see how they are worded, what they do and whats schools of magic they belong in. That would really help get these dota conversions in a better place. Here is a new link to version 1.3 Dungeons and Dota
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Post by dm_mainprize on Apr 21, 2015 17:01:30 GMT
Last link is buggy. I recommend adding an index that cross references the spells with which class spell lists they appear on. You wrote a number of spells that last X rounds. Virtually every spell with a duration longer than instantaneous lasts for concentration, until a saving throw is made, permanent/until dispelled, or start/end of target/caster next turn. It's extra bookkeeping. Not a lot, but not in the spirit of 5e, either. Here are a few thoughts on the first few champions spells, commenting as they appear in order in the document. Misty Coil: Increase range to 30 feet Borrowed Time: Text is unclear, which of these is the intended effect? To still take the damage, then heal some of it back? Or to negate the damage entirely, and instead gain back half of what you would have taken? Acid Spray: Reduce radius to 20 feet. Make note that AC cannot be reduced below non-armor AC. Reconsider name due to closeness of Acid Splash. Greevil's Greed: Hillarious, but kind of pointless unless you've got a seriously stingy DM. Make it a level 2 spell. Unstable Concoction: Change to success save = creatures is only poisoned, instead of stunned Chemical Rage: casting spells to regain spell slots = no (even if it is only a 25% chance). Not sure about replacement. Chilling Touch: Reconsider name due to closeness of Chill Touch. Ice Vortex: Is it supposed to be a concentration spell? Ok so I went back and re-worked some of the spells from the ABC heroes taking your feedback into consideration. I got rid of any spell effects that lasted for x-turns. I changed the way I was converting spell distances so lots of those have had minor tweaks or adjustments. I completely reworded Borrowed Time to hopefully make it more clear. Added the text about minimum armor when under the effects of acid spray. I Chemical Rages Spell slot renewal for protection against some status effects for an extended period of time. I changed a few spells from instantaneous to concentration to fit their needs. I kept all the names as is to keep them tied with their names in Dota but do agree some names are very similar if not identical to spells that already exist. Will have to come up with some solution for that at some point. I have 3 heroes left in the D section so as soon as those are done I will post an updated version. Is there anything else you would like to see added. The 2 things that come to mind is more lore info on the heroes themselves and possibly a small thumbnail image of the spell icon from within the game. Thanks again for your feed back nevvur.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2015 18:02:02 GMT
Sure thing, I was just getting started, but I'm prone to distraction. I'll be back (eventually) to turn an analytical eye on this project. It's cool, and I'm happy to contribute to it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2015 6:27:18 GMT
Another general observation, you almost never use concentration duration, even when its appropriate. A lot of my suggested changes include this.
Anti-Mage
Mana Break: Spell slot damage? Interesting idea, but absolutely overpowered. I would opt for something like, "If hit, the creature is unable to cast spells of Spell Level 3 or lower until it succeeds on a wisdom saving throw against the caster's spellcasting DC. Increase by Spell Level negation by 1 for each higher level spell slot" i.e. casting Mana Break with a 6th level spell slot makes the target unable to cast 5th level spells
Spell Shield: Text is confusing. "You gain resistance to magical damage" followed by all "non B,P,S" damage. Not all non-BPS damage is magical (i.e. sometimes fire is just fire), and some BPS damage is magical (ie. magic weapons, monk attacks). Need duration and probably concentration. Probably increase to Spell Level 4. Compare to Protection from Energy and Stoneskin.
Mana Void: No indication of the timeframe in which the target has used spell slots. Also adds extra stuff for the DM to track, bleh bookkeeping. Instead, I would make the initial cast a WIS save. If he fails, he takes 1d10 damage per Spell Level for each spell he casts. Concentration, 1 minute. Lower to 6th or 7th level.
Axe
Berserker's Call: +5 AC for a minute is overpowered for a non-concentration, 2nd level spell. It also destroys the concept of bounded accuracy. Make it +2 AC, concentration. Compare to Shield of Faith + Command (in an area) wrapped into one. Might need to be 3rd level spell.
Battle Hunger: I just don't like that it has a kill condition to end. I'd change this to concentration 1 minute, if the target fails the save, then it takes 1d10 psychic damage if it does not cause damage to another creature on its turn.
Counter helix: Concentration 1 minute. Make it any melee attack (weapon or spell), not any weapon attack (melee or ranged).
Culling Blade: I don't like the 1/4 health rule. Needs to be a static amount. Consider Power Word Kill (9th level) that instagibs an enemy with 100 HP. Now consider an ancient red dragon (546 HP) reduced to 1/4 (136).
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Post by dm_mainprize on Apr 22, 2015 13:07:11 GMT
Another set of epic level feedback,lots of this stuff is me trying to stick as closely to what the spell does within dota. Its great to get another perspectice that is analyzing it just from the perspective of "how would this work in D&D?" and who isnt carrying any of the baggage of what the spell does elsewhere! Definitely gonna make some of these changes. My hesitation to use concentration more is that you can't cast another spell while concentrating and lots of these spells within dota are meant to be unleashed as a combo. I dont know how to tweak the spells durations to allow for this kind of spell synergy. Being a video game most abilities in dota are in the form of a fire and forget spell. you choose your ability and choose an enemy target, if they are in range and you have the mana, that effect occurs. There are some abilities that are "channeled" or require "channeling" these fit into the concentration bracket as while casting them in dota you normally can not move, take damage or attack normally, but must stand in place focusing a spell. I do agree the language on a lot of these sounds like they should be concentration but again like the combo spells, I just haven't wrapped my head around getting the two worlds to meet. I am almost done with the D letters and will post it today most likely it will include a lot of changes so keep your eye out for it. Ok here is version 1.5 contains letter "D" heroes and changes from your first bit of feedback nevvur. the second set of feedback changes will most likely be included in v1.6 or 1.7. Also I am uploading 2 version. one with hero artwork that is around 55mb and one with no art work at all that is much much smaller. Dungeons and Dota PDF with no artworkDungeons and Dota PDF with Artwork
Let me know if either of the links gives you issues.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2015 18:15:51 GMT
I played a lot of LoL, so I know the combo concept quite well. Clarify for me, though, are you making a DotA module wherein each set of spells is the only feature available to a dota character? Or is the goal to create a list of usable spells in any D&D setting? If it's the latter, these spells ought to conform to the standards in the PHB, or they'll rampage over the very notion of class balance.
If it's the former, I think they should be written as class features, rather than spells. FWIW, I was considering writing a League module for D&D where players would choose a champion which gained his key abilities as he leveled up, rather than class and archetype features. I gave up on the notion when I realized how huge a task it would be, alas.
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Post by dm_mainprize on Apr 22, 2015 23:32:03 GMT
So true, its is the latter I would like for them to fit into any d&d world, but I dont want to completely lose what they can do and where they come from. My process is to get the general idea on paper attempting to match up how they work in dota with how spells work in d&d and then refine and iterate on them till the match the d&d rules well enough to be used in any setting. Your feedback so far has been huge in that task, as well as me just starting to just read through all the spells in the PHB. I think a good way to going forward would be to analyze the ability in dota, see what spells are like it in D&D then try to write something out. Either way I will be starting the "E" heroes tonight. So onward I must press as I have already created 104 spells...
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Post by DM Chris on Apr 23, 2015 3:56:29 GMT
Can't wait til you get to Tiny. Interested to see how you will make Toss work! Could make for some interesting roleplay moments.
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Post by dm_mainprize on Apr 23, 2015 12:34:06 GMT
That might be a bit, I just started the "E" heroes last night, and I am hitting some of the more complex heroes who have more than 4 abilities. Well they have four abilities but also some abilities that do wacky things. Needless to say this project is super fun so far!
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Post by DM Chris on Apr 25, 2015 5:43:37 GMT
That might be a bit, I just started the "E" heroes last night, and I am hitting some of the more complex heroes who have more than 4 abilities. Well they have four abilities but also some abilities that do wacky things. Needless to say this project is super fun so far! Oh yeah! I know it will be a while. Even so I am still super excited for Tiny. He is probably my favorite champ in the whole game.
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