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Post by joatmoniac on Feb 26, 2017 19:37:25 GMT
This one is going to be straight forward, but extremely open ended. Essentially, I want to tap into the collective hive mind and see what we can come up with for broken builds for characters. Essentially giving ideas for what can be done inside the systems we play and the things players can do when stacking the chips the right way.
So yeah, if you have a character build, a single ability, or just a general situation of the game bending or breaking please share. Also. If you are willing to please let the group know how you worked through that situation. I know for me personally I do what Mark mentioned and have built characters just to see if/how I can break things, haha.
My example is as a player at a table with someone that broke the system back in the 3.5 days. I don't remember the exact build, but it was a bard that focused almost exclusively into Charisma based skills and abilities. At one point he murdered an NPC in front of another NPC while the rest of the party was away. Through this and that convinced everyone that it was the 2nd NPC that did the killing.
The resolution was double checking exactly how everything he had stacked and worked with each other to figure out that it probably shouldn't have been possible to convince someone that they committed a murder that they saw someone else do. Going forward they were just held to a double check on things that seemed like they were stretching the rules, and less scenarios were presented that could be abused.
That's one of mine. How about yours?
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Post by frohtastic on Feb 26, 2017 23:26:29 GMT
I had a cleric build where I specifically went for turning undead, not exactly game breaking but it did mean that any undead related encounter was met with the cleric just barreling through it and such. (feats and prestige paths, even some complete divine feats)
I think he ended up with like way more turns and turn hd pr day than usual, and they even worked against evil outsiders.
Sadly I didnt get to do much with him since the group disintegrated so I didnt get to make him into the Saint i wanted to make him.
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Post by dmgenisisect on Feb 27, 2017 2:12:12 GMT
As a player I'm quite good at breaking systems. I normally do this do that I can achieve what I want to RP. The only time this was an issue was when I was playing a campaign that started in Dark Heresy and transitioned into Black Crusade. The GM invited me to his game because he was getting sick of running a game for one that played more like the war game then an RPG. He loved the opportunity to run a more RP focused game. He did make the mistake of warning me that the game could be pretty brutal, so I pulled out all the stops and built a very strong Tech-Priest who was hard to hit, could soak damage, and disarm a lot of encounters before they even started. The other player didn't know me before the game, and I turned up fully immersed in character, so he confused for my RP with me. All in all my arrival completely 'ruined' his game. We resolved the issue by me running a lighthearted game with a good mix of easy fun RP and some good old fashioned combat, which also help him realise both the fun of RP and realise that me and my character were distinct. I also retired that character, rolled up a psycher and played a little more goofy character.
My main group is pretty good, we only have one min/maxer but he's pretty tamed, we started from first when the whole gruop was new to the game and he took the premise ranger I made. As we all know rangers in 3.5 are quite weak so this keeps his power in check. I also have a house rule that forbids cross classing and prosthetic classes unless something happens in the game that prompts that (normally a small arc for pristine classes), which further reduces min/maxing. He also helps the others level if the need it, so my party tends to be quite robust allowing what limited combat I through at them to be reasonably challenging.
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Post by DM Exitium on Feb 27, 2017 19:20:45 GMT
I'm working on a drunken dwarf brawler tank build. It's quite adept at crowd control, consistent damage, and damage mitigation.
Total build I'm considering 17 monk / 3 barbarian for Open Hand master ability - or - 16 monk / 4 barbarian for maximizing Feats and ASI's.
The damage is Dex based, such that you'll be quick to act in the initiative order, and can either gain the benefit of unarmored defense from Barb or Monk.
Currently, this PC is only level 4, at 4 levels of Monk with Tavern Brawler feat for the grappling function. Also a good RP element as his "monk" weapon is a dwarvish metal Beerstein for my particular character.
He'll dip 4 levels into Barbarian to get the bonus rage damage, Str advantages, and damage resistances to Bludge, slash, pierce. This helps as the tank build is relying on maximizing DEX/CON and relying on Dex for damage rather than STR so the extra advantages from rage are quite useful.
EDIT: Forgot to mention to take Path of Totem Warrior barbarian archetype for the Bear totem to increase damage resistances.
Also, this path allows for Monk multi-attack at high levels, while using bonus action for Rage in 1st round, and Dodge in later rounds for further damage mitigation.
Also, the Open hand functions of throwing, knocking prone and removing reactions is very useful for breaking up groups or coming to the aid of an ally.
Feats need not be taken in this order but its my plan:
4 - Tavern Brawler (RP purposes in my case), I would min/max an ASI of +1 to DEX/CON or +2 to one depending on the character's stats stand.
8 - Mobile; increase speed, reduce opportunity attacks against you.
12 - Athlete; increases Monk mobility, climb speed, and +1 DEX
16 - Martial Adept; take Evasive footwork maneuver to be a running Monk high AC tank & Goading attack for a tank-like taunt
20 - Tough: for extra HP and tanking, as the monk hit dice is not as robust as the barbarian.
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Post by catcharlie on Feb 27, 2017 22:07:12 GMT
I played a Thief in a 4e game, while I didn't make the character to be broken, it was pretty broken from the start. This was mainly due to it being a "Streamlined" class (my description of it, not an official one), that was built around dealing damage. Basically I had a few At-Will Move actions that allowed me to get flanking/Advantage every turn, which meant that I got my sneak attack (3d8) on top of my weapon damage (1d10+6) which I was able to use a broadsword due to a feat that allowed me to sneak attack with any weapon I was proficient with. In addition to all that the DM* gave me a "Legendary Weapon" that gave me two initiative slots. So yes, quite broken, and with everything going through Dex (my highest stat) I was hard to hit and I hit hard, and often. The downside was that the character was a total one trick pony and not much fun to play with after a while. Oh also I could teleport, due to prestige class ability, so that just added to the brokenness.
* It was a Legendary Weapon of Kord, which one of the other players was a paladin of Kord and managed to convince the temple to let me take it as I was travelling with her.
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Post by Mr Squidee on Feb 28, 2017 2:07:40 GMT
One time my dad made a character with the polearm master and sentinel combo where you would get an opportunity attack whenever a monster came into range of you, you had two range and whenever you made an opportunity attack the monster had to end their turn. So every time a monster came within two tiles of him they would be attacked and stopped so that they couldn't get to us.
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Post by dmcaleb on Feb 28, 2017 13:02:18 GMT
All of my min max experience was in 3/3.5, but I learned a lot from figuring out how to account for its faults.
Purchasing magic items- the DM should provide a limited list of what can be purchased. Otherwise you end up with one person who buys 3 dusts of sneezing and choking (the most powerful for gp value item in 3.5) and ruins the next 3 boss encounters.
Reference books-limit the number of books the player's can use to make their character. The abuse often occurs which unforeseen stacking. Limiting will mitigate this problem. Except for 3.5 hulking hurler. That prestige was broken in its own book.
Skill junkies-diplomancers and bluffers can dismantle well crafted encounters. For diplomacy I added 'conviction' a 1-20 bonus, and the target's Cha, to the attitude DC. It may seem like a lot, but it felt appropriate. Anything to prevent my warlord from inviting his hated foes in for tea again....
Bluffers. Instead of the D.C. Increasing 5,10,20. Its 5,15,45. This encourages the pc to say I'm a courier delivering a package instead of 'I'm your god and I WILL see the king!'-my players apparently don't believe in small gestures.
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drdoost
Squire
Posts: 33 
Favorite D&D Class: Bard
Favorite D&D Race: Aasimar
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Post by drdoost on Feb 28, 2017 18:53:47 GMT
I personally don't have much experience with min/max stuff. I tend to dive more into the RP than into the numbers, but thats just me. However, I definitely have players who love the numbers, and they are always talking about multi-classing, taking this feat cause it will buff this feat, etc. However, with both feats and multi-classing I am ADAMANT that they must give me a role-play reason that their character might multi-class into barbarian as a wizard, or whatever they intend on doing. Then I make them seek out a barbarian trainer, NPC or another player character to get the knowledge. They will not just instantly know how to lose themselves to Rage. The RP is very important, and in my game if you do the RP right I pretty much let you do whatever...
As for feats, when my players take them, I usually work with them to figure out how they might gain that knowledge. At level 4, when they got their first feats, one wanted "Mobile", so I made him take part in a mud-run against other NPCs to gain that knowledge. Another wanted "Great Weapon Master", so he had to enter a melee. These not only made one of the best sessions but also let each character shine on his own rather than vying for attention. Also, I like to encourage them to pick something that makes sense for their background and class, not just because it makes them better.
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Post by galakan on Feb 28, 2017 21:18:05 GMT
My absolute favorite broken character was my Bard by far. This was in the 3.5 days where Bards were often considered lame sauce (especially if you took bardic knowledge over bardic knack). But I min-maxed the heck out of my Inspire Courage (whichever one was + to hit and dam) using every magic item and every feat possible to the point when I would give +6/+6 to everyone around me at level 10.
It was perfect because I was able to contribute mechanically in the fights enough to where our combat heavy players wouldn't complain about having a bard in the party. And then I was free to go absolutely NUTS in the role-playing sections and not feel like I was dead weight to people who didn't like getting involved in the story.
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dmcrenton
Squire
Posts: 27
Favorite D&D Class: Swordmage
Favorite D&D Race: Human
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Post by dmcrenton on Feb 28, 2017 21:33:44 GMT
My story is of one of my players in my last game. I didn't think to say "please don't go out of your way to break the game when character creating." So I ended up with a Shardmind Witch with all of the Skill Replacement cantrips. As a Shardmind Witch, his Arcana skill was through the roof, and he invested all of his starting money into rituals that let him exploit this to the fullest. Like Fool's Gold. I allowed him to retire the character fairly quickly when he determined that everything he was doing with the character was really just raising my blood pressure  |
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Post by DM Windhover on Mar 2, 2017 19:30:59 GMT
Step 1: Be a sorcerer, maximize your CHA.
Step 2: Reach level 7.
Step 3: Have both spells Fly and Polymorph.
Step 4: Use Heightened Spell to cast Polymorph on whatever major enemy you're facing (giving it disadvantage on the WIS save; that's the only reason this is better with a Sorcerer than a Wizard), turning it into a mouse or something similar.
Step 5: Cast Fly on self.
Step 6: Fly straight up for 5 minutes.
Step 7: Drop the mouse from 6000 feet. It takes 1 damage, reverts to normal form, and then takes the remainder of the 600d6 damage (average roll: 2100).
Step 8: Fly back down before concentration ends, land triumphant in the goo which was once your foe.
Only limitations of this horrifying rules abuse:
1. Legendary creatures can choose to succeed failed saves, so you'll probably have to wait a number of rounds to burn through those free saves before trying to pull this off on such a creature. And if you're level 7 and it's a serious legendary creature, you aren't going to survive those rounds.
2. You can't use this on shapechangers, because they auto-succeed their save on the Polymorph spell.
(This is just one of the reasons I'm considering adding some houserule modification for Polymorph, or even just banning it from my home game entirely.)
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Post by dmgenisisect on Mar 3, 2017 9:34:47 GMT
I'd love to read the description for polymorph in 4e, because it essentially is broken in every edition I've played.
As a side note, this can be also be easily achieved if you own any extra-dimensional storage. Which is a type of item typically given to every party. Has the added advantage of keeping all their items safe, and if the target actually manages to rupture the bag, then they are killed any way...
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dmcrenton
Squire
Posts: 27
Favorite D&D Class: Swordmage
Favorite D&D Race: Human
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Post by dmcrenton on Mar 3, 2017 12:57:07 GMT
I'd love to read the description for polymorph in 4e, because it essentially is broken in every edition I've played. As a side note, this can be also be easily achieved if you own any extra-dimensional storage. Which is a type of item typically given to every party. Has the added advantage of keeping all their items safe, and if the target actually manages to rupture the bag, then they are killed any way... Ask and you shall receive! There are actually three different items in the Compendium for 4e that use the word "Polymorph." I will paste them in here. |
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Post by dmgenisisect on Mar 4, 2017 21:39:30 GMT
Good old 4e being the exception...
This looks utterly balanced from what I know of the system (looking at the Druid one in particular, the Wizard one kind of looks below the power curve).
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dmcrenton
Squire
Posts: 27
Favorite D&D Class: Swordmage
Favorite D&D Race: Human
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Post by dmcrenton on Mar 4, 2017 21:50:58 GMT
Good old 4e being the exception... This looks utterly balanced from what I know of the system (looking at the Druid one in particular, the Wizard one kind of looks below the power curve). That one is for the Wizard's Apprentice theme. It's the "we need to do recon bit the rogue isn't here tonight" power. There are other powers with the Polymorph keyword, but they seem to be about the same in power level as Baleful Polymorph. |
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