nuncle
Commoner
Posts: 3 
Favorite D&D Class: Wizard
Favorite D&D Race: Human
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Post by nuncle on Apr 26, 2016 22:34:29 GMT
Greetings all! Here's a "How would you rule?" issue to sink your fangs into! My players will be starting Curse of Strahd next week. One of them will be using this optional subrace from the Unearthed Arcana on the WotC site: Revenantwww.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fdnd.wizards.com%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fmedia%2Fupload%2Farticles%2FUA%2520Gothic%2520Characters.pdf&h=5AQFZlPJ5The part that concerns me from the Revenant benefits is this: "If you die, you return to life 24 hours after death."And the reason it concerns me is Strahd's ability, which is this (After Strahd kills a PC with his bite): "A humanoid slain in this way and then buried in the ground rises the following night as a vampire spawn under Strahd's control."See where I'm going with this?  How would you rule this? If Strahd kills a Revenant PC, what happens? Does the PC come under his control? Or does the Revenant ability trump Strahd's powers? I already have an idea how I will rule this, but I'm very curious to hear other opinions, namely yours!  |
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Post by dmsam on Apr 26, 2016 22:43:31 GMT
I would go as far as using the abilities of the stock revenant from the MM to complement the returning ability.
Rejuvenation: When the revenant's body is destroyed, its soul lingers. After 24 hours, the soul inhabits and animates another corpse on the same plane of existence and regains all of its hit points. While the soul is bodiless, a wish spell can be used to force the soul to go to the afterlife and not return.
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nuncle
Commoner
Posts: 3
Favorite D&D Class: Wizard
Favorite D&D Race: Human
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Post by nuncle on Apr 26, 2016 22:49:50 GMT
That is an excellent idea! That allows the PC to return, and for Strahd to control the PC's old body, thereby paving the way for the PC to be confronted by his own body, which has just been ordered by Strahd to kill him! Many thanks for the idea!  |
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Post by grimmhelm on Apr 27, 2016 4:18:40 GMT
An excellent idea, I would ether go with dmsam idea of Rejuvination OR have the player Roll a will save upon revival to oppose Strahd's control. If he/she fails he is given one task he is compelled to do, it could be something simple to mess with the players or something major for later. Simple Example: Kick the halfling whilst he/she is sleep. every night. Major Example: Cast the Sunsword into the deepest hole you can find, even if another player is holding onto it. The fact that Strahd is only interested with toying with the party until the final arc of the story can be used for some effective tomfoolery. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 7:24:12 GMT
Interesting question.
Personally, I would rule that Strahd cannot turn a revenant into a vampire spawn. I think it's a cooler story that a revenant's thirst for vengeance is even stronger than vampirism. This call isn't really supported by any text, though.
The biggest indicator that revenant and vampire spawn are compatible appears in the green box on p.295 MM. "The game statistics of a player character transformed into a vampire spawn and then a vampire don't change..." That is, he keeps his subrace of revenant and everything that goes with it. A night can pass while buried post-bite, causing the vampirism to set in before the 24 hour revenant ability does.
But if we dig a little deeper, it gets more complicated. On p.7 MM under Undead, they are "once-living creatures." Once-living means dead, nevermind the fact they can still move and stuff. So the revenant's ability kicks in after 24 hours, even if it's been turned into a vampire spawn, returning it to life.
If there's any argument to be had, I think it's in defining undeath. Is undeath a form of life, or a form of death? If it's a form of life, revenant and vampire (spawn) are compatible. If it's a form of death, being a revenant takes precedence. If it's truly something in between, as I think most people regard it, you're left with pure GM fiat. Which is why I started out stating mine!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 8:57:08 GMT
I'm curious to know what other people think, and there's lots of opinions to be found over at Enworld, so I reposted the question there. Hopefully it'll turn into an insightful discussion and not a slugfest. Also tweeted the question to Jeremy Crawford, here's hoping he answers.
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nuncle
Commoner
Posts: 3
Favorite D&D Class: Wizard
Favorite D&D Race: Human
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Post by nuncle on Apr 27, 2016 23:41:20 GMT
Thanks for the replies, gentlemen! I'm glad this caused some discussion, and it brought up some damn interesting things to consider, so thanks again!  |
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Post by joatmoniac on Apr 28, 2016 1:35:58 GMT
Interesting question. A night can pass while buried post-bite, causing the vampirism to set in before the 24 hour revenant ability does. What if this sentence was how you ruled it to essentially allow for both pieces to coexist. The player is bitten and killed one night, and rises as a vampire the next day. However, that night they turn back into a Revenant. Or like was mentioned you could have the two contest each other to see which wins out. Such an interesting concept. Also, Nevvur can you link to where you posed the question on EnWorld? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 2:13:35 GMT
Link to enworld threadEnworld has been undergoing maintenance, so check later if the site isn't loading. There hasn't been much discussion yet as of the time of this post.
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Post by DM Stretch on Jun 13, 2016 21:37:27 GMT
If the concern is that a player doesn't see danger in being bitten by Strahd as a revenant, you can MAKE them scared by saying he can bring other undead creatures under his thrall as well; perhaps not by being bitten, but by taking the revenant's body back to castle to perform a ritual that binds the spirit to his will.
From what I've read of the adventure, Strahd takes great delight in toying with insolent adventurers!
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