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Post by insightfulhedgehog on Mar 17, 2015 22:32:41 GMT
I was trying to think of other races to add to the world I am creating and since I am playing 5e I noticed that they have divided the races in what seemingly appears to be full one race and mixed races. This got me thinking, what races would make sense to combine and have some half versions of. The immediate thought for me was why do half-dwarves not exist? Perhaps there is a reason but I didn't really see anything anywhere that makes me think this couldn't work.
That said I am fairly new to DMing (long time player) and am not sure how to go about creating a whole new race. I mean lore-wise I'm probablly alright but what about their stats ect. Even if I did homebrew something for this how do I go about determining its CR.
O guess the most obvious thing would be to mash some human and dwarf traits together and take some notes out of the half-epf book. I.e. They would have +2 to con and +1 to two other stats( like half-elves) any help on this will be greatly appreciated(will post more info as I think of it).
Edit 1: Ok, so after looking at the stats of the two races I've come to the decisions that follow(let me know what you think) +2 con, +1 in 2 other abilities Age mature 25-30 death avg 250 Alignment: Can be any but generally speaking tend toward lawful like dwarves. They tend to be stubborn and extremly loyal to their allies. Height: 4.5-5.5 feet( just average range of the two races) Weight: heavy due to their increase in height with a large build so maybe 180? Vision: darkvision? Speed: either 25 with the "no heavy armor slow buff" or 30ft idk yet Bonuses: advantage against poisons and profeciency in two skills Languages: dwarven and common obviously however they tend to be better at the language they were raised in( for example a german person speaking english has the hard phrases like that of a dwarf speaking common but an american speaking german lacks the pronunciaton and harshness like a human speaking dwarvish)
Let me know what you would add/change or if any of this seems broken or even not substantial enough.
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Post by dm_mainprize on Mar 17, 2015 22:54:32 GMT
I love the idea of half-dwarves as I am a huge fan of dwarves in general. I am not sure why the generally dont exist in most settings, but my gut instinct would be because they arent really needed. Humans who train and work hard can get buff and tough and resilient like most dwarves. Humans can grow beards and wield axes. Some humans even have high tolerance for drinking mead, ale and beer. With half elves you get a hyper natural human connection with the environment that normal humans cant normally achieve and you get the pointy ear/extended life cycles. Now that is all just my opinion as to why they arent normally seen. I would love to see the idea fleshed out or someone with the actual answer add it here.
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Post by insightfulhedgehog on Mar 17, 2015 23:10:42 GMT
I added some info via edit(not sure if it shows up as anything having changed on the post or not)
In regard to the fact that that humans can become dwarf-like I agree with you in many ways. However, upon looking at the dwarves stats in the phb for 5e I've come to the conclusion that a half-elf and half-dwarf are opposites in many ways. Some examples of what I mean
Alignment of Half-Elves tend toward chaotic whereas dwarves(and half-dwarves) tend toward a more lawful alignment.
Knowledge: while you are right that elves tend toward a connection to nature also consider the dwarven connection to the earth and minerals. A Half-dwarf would have a proficient knowledge of stonework and would tend toward the ground in the way a half-elf might to nature.
Immunities: A half-elf has proficiency against some magics such as sleep and such however a dearf has immunity to such things as well. Poison immunity stems from a strong constitution which is typical of dwarves.
These things said I think that half-dwarves might have a differnt interaction then that of half-elves. By that I mean, unlike half-elves, who tend to be outcasts of both societies, a half-dwarf wouldn't stand out as much and would be accepted in both places. What is your thought on this aspect?
Edit: I forgot to mention that dwarves also have long life spans like elves so it would make sense that half-dwarves would as well.
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Post by dm_mainprize on Mar 18, 2015 0:43:55 GMT
I like that stat bloc! I definitely think it has potential, my only feed back is that I just dont know if its needed. A big thing for me when creating new races or homebrewing races, is to ask, what niche does this fill. What role does this race serve that is not filled by the others. So to help you craft this race, I will ask what role would half-dwarfs fill in your world? would they replace another race? would they be simply an addition. What roll do normal dwarves and normal humans play in your world? What led to them mating/mixing to the point that half-dwarves are common in your world. Again want to say I love dwarves and the idea of half-dwarves. just wanna help you flesh this idea more.
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Post by insightfulhedgehog on Mar 18, 2015 2:59:52 GMT
All of these are good questions and things I definitely need to think about, but I’ll try to answer them as best I can for now in order to get some input:
In regards to what role they would play I am not really sure at the moment. So, I’m going to attempt to come up with a single example of a half-dwarfs life:
So, there is a half-dwarf by the name of Dolthan. He had a human mother and a dwarf Father, and grew up amongst the humans with his mother. His parents met, as many half-dwarf parents do, because his father was an ore merchant from one of the great Dwarven Strongholds. Dolthan’s father did not abandon him but he only visits occasionally due to his mercantile lifestyle. In his youth, Dolthan didn’t stand out much other than the fact that he seemed to hit puberty a bit late compared to his friends(he was however the first to have a full beard). Dolthan’s mother died when he was almost of age and he was left on his own. Dolthan at first struggled because he couldn’t find a trade which he was any good at. He tried everything: hunting (he found he had no love for the forest and lacked the skills needed for tracking), building (he was a good builder but didn’t really understand why you would build a house out of wood), and even baking(he kept burning everything). One day his father returned to find him barely getting by and also learned of the death of Dolthan’s mother. After he had mourned he set forth to help his son. He took him to a nearby mine and started to teach him about the earth’s resources. He picked it up quickly, so quickly it almost seemed instinctual to him. He got a job as a miner and soon found himself surpassing all of the veteran human miners. He could get into smaller tunnels and survive longer in the tunnels. Not just that but he found that he was almost unaffected by the poisonous gas that was found in pockets within the ground. After a few months of mining, Dolthan was approached by a master blacksmith who praised him on his mining methods and requested that he become his apprentice so that his true talents might be realized. Dolthan accepted and went to work for the Blacksmith. Similarly to his work in the mines, Dolthan’s skills with a forge were realized quickly. Within a few weeks there were people requesting weapons from him. He even received a request from the captain of the city guard for some swords to be made for him and his right-hand men.
So, I guess the role of a half-dwarf could be stoneworkers, blacksmiths and miners. Obviously, this is not a sufficient reason for a whole new race, especially because dwarves could easily fill a similar role. But, like a half-elf they would have a lot in common with both races. The thing that is said in the 5e phb about the relation of dwarves to humans is that the dwarves are impressed on what they accomplish in their short life spans. Where a dwarf would normally take a task to build something or protect something upon himself humans make organizations and groups to take on the task as the years pass. So a mix of the two as well as their proficiencies would mean that a half-dwarf would be more likely to create a blacksmith guild then to on their own run a smith like a dwarf in human culture. This means also that they would be able to accomplish more in their life span then a human. Imagine a skilled artist such as Michelangelo, how much more would he have accomplished in over double his life-span? So, in actuality it would make sense for half-dwarves to be common artisans, guild members, and merchants. Perhaps this is the role they would fill?
Next Question: Would they replace another race?
I wouldn’t have it that way in my world but to take a page from J.R.R. Tolkien it would not be a stretch to say that as time goes on dwarves would start to blend with humans and only half-dwarfs would remain. Again, this isn’t what I would do in my world because to me it is not a case of needing to replace another race just like how half-elves don’t replace another race.
Also, I wouldn’t say that half-dwarves would be common in my world in the same way I wouldn’t say that half-elves are common. Realistically the only way either half race exists is that a member of both races got together and did the deed. Unlike half-orcs neither of these are cases where one of the people was not willing but I guess there might be some cases. So, basically half-dwarves would exist because a dwarf and a human fell in love, one of them works at a brothel, or something similar. Logically for this to take place they have to be in the same place which means either one of them is a traveler, both races inhabit the same area, or something else I have yet to think of.
To summarize, I guess they have no huge role of importance. However, what role do half-elves fill other than being able to serve as diplomats (which anyone could do if they know both languages)? Most likely they would be merchants, miners, craftsman, and/or guild members. They would just be an addition and they would not be super common (just like half-elves) but they would exist primarily from the mating of two willing people of the two races. What do you think of these ideas?
Just realized that I didn't answer the niche question. I guess I'm not 100% on this yet but in my experience a lot of people choose to play half-elves because they are a mixture of many of the good things about the two races that compose them. They are also more versatile then normal elves because they let you choose 2 of the stats you raise(however you do have to get the +2 cha which is not super helpful if you are playing a non-skill based class). A half-dwarf can really be any class, I mean name one class that doesn't benefit from an increased con score. Even a wizard will appreciated it because it means and extra hp per level. So, I guess the niche is there already in some way for it to fill as a race.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2015 3:22:30 GMT
Looks good. My suggestions...
Ability bonus: +2 con, +1 to two stats is good Darkvision: yes Movement: 30 feet. They do not get to ignore heavy armor movement reduction Poison resistance as normal dwarves Tool proficiency as normal dwarves (not skill diversity like half-elves)
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Post by friartook on Mar 18, 2015 13:37:43 GMT
I like that stat bloc! I definitely think it has potential, my only feed back is that I just dont know if its needed. A big thing for me when creating new races or homebrewing races, is to ask, what niche does this fill. What role does this race serve that is not filled by the others. So to help you craft this race, I will ask what role would half-dwarfs fill in your world? would they replace another race? would they be simply an addition. What roll do normal dwarves and normal humans play in your world? What led to them mating/mixing to the point that half-dwarves are common in your world. Again want to say I love dwarves and the idea of half-dwarves. just wanna help you flesh this idea more. An example of need based on my own needs for such a stat block: In the new setting I am homebrewing, Dwarves are a subset of humans, a mutation caused by arcane radiation and accelerated evolutionary adaptation to underground environments. Thus, dwarves and humans could conceivably breed. However, elves are visitors from space (yes, aliens), so would not be able to breed with humans. So, in this world, there are no half-elves, but there are, or at least could be, half-dwarves. I was thinking of using a modified version of the Goliath for a base stat block. The Goliaths seem to be a dwarf-giant hybrid (a totally improbable cross-breed, but I won't go there today). I thought if I toned down the giant aspects and made them smaller in size, they would be a good template to start with. I was also thinking making them suffer from alopecia, just to give them some unique flavor. I need to take a closer look at the actual stats before making a stat block. I will be taking insightfulhedgehog's stat block under review as well. Good work!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2015 17:43:16 GMT
"(a totally improbable cross-breed, but I won't go there today)"
A yorkshire terrier meets an irish wolfhound...
Incidentally, half-dwarves are rather common in my homebrew setting. I never created a separate stat block for them, however. I think a lot of settings do account for half-dwarves, but they simply explain (as I do) that one half of their racial stock overrides the other, and uses the corresponding racial stat package.
The major complaint I have with this is racial weapon proficiency. It is described as a cultural thing, not something hardcoded into their physiology. Thus, somehow a half-dwarf who more strongly resembles his dwarven parent (uses the dwarf stat block) but was raised among humans... somehow is an expert with warhammers? Not all half-elves are proficient with the bow and blade, even if they were raised among elves. It cannot simply be that every elven culture denies their cultural training to half breeds!
Granted, it's presumptive to say that all members of a race know how to use their racial weapons. One assumes that racial members who take up adventuring learned it sometime in their past, but not every random elven herbalist and dwarven brewer NPC should have these skills.
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Post by insightfulhedgehog on Mar 18, 2015 18:41:22 GMT
After some thinking I definitely agree with the tool proficiency and movement speed stat usage. In regards to the using one races stats over the other I can see why that would be a good idea in some situations. But in my mind, like I think you were saying, there are some stats tied to race and others which are tied to upbringing and culture. So realistically there would be two sub-races or something similar that would alter proficiency based on back-story. However, at the same time, there is no division like this in the 5e phb for half-elves. Although this is not the most realistic way of doing things it works in most given situations. I'd almost rather just have the one block for either situation than make two for no other reason then a slight discontinuity. But maybe that is just me.
Also in response no friartook: Thanks for your example of when half-dwarfs would come into things more and actually have a role. Also, I love the fact that you are thinking of giving them alopecia. It is ironic in a way and there is something about ironic characters and things in dnd that I love. It is also interesting to see someone looking at it from a different angle. Where I approached it by looking at the two races and a race that was half human and altered it accordingly, you are looking at a race that is half-dwarf in your comparison. In my mind we will hopefully end up with something close to what would realistically be the real characteristics of the race. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with(assuming you post about it when your done).
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Post by friartook on Mar 18, 2015 18:43:39 GMT
(assuming you post about it when your done). Will do 
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Post by friartook on Mar 18, 2015 18:49:53 GMT
I knew I had seen something like this! Muls from Dark Sun setting 3.0! They are half-dwarves. Check out the attached PDF for their 3.0 racial stats. The description is great too; they are sterile, like mules, so can't breed true. Interesting. Attachments:Muls.pdf (319.46 KB)
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Post by insightfulhedgehog on Mar 18, 2015 19:09:48 GMT
I like the muls idea but there are parts of it that don't work in my world. For instance, slavery is highly frowned upon in the areas I have created so far, and even what slavery there is is relatively new to the world and hopefully(depending on the PC's ability to help crown a new king of the kingdom). But them being sterile like mules is definitely interesting and makes sense. Overall, the muls are a bit dark for what I had envisioned but definitely could be useful in certain settings. Thanks for sharing. I'm going to read this more thoroughly than later and see if there is anything I might want to add to my stat-block or description.
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Post by friartook on Mar 18, 2015 19:13:32 GMT
I'll be reading it through as well, its been a long time. Found this in my PDF archive of old D&D stuff.
I am more interested in the physical aspects than the cultural aspects. The darkness and slavery are all Dark Sun flavor. I like it for that setting, but not for my own (although there are periods of time where such things would apply).
Just wanted to share it as a starting point. Its always nice to see where someone else has gone with an idea.
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Post by joatmoniac on Mar 18, 2015 21:30:32 GMT
www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?377945-DMG-Excerpt-Creating-a-New-Race gives a link to the subraces page of the DMG. It also has most of the not-so-specific info from the DMG about building a new race. I love the idea of a half-dwarf as well. The Muls document does feel like a really solid jumping off point for you. I concur with giving the race Darkvision and a 30ft movement speed. To cover the topic of raised in this society or that you could tweak the Skill Diversity that half elves have to be a specific set of skills (said in a Liam Neeson voice) that represents the two races.
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Post by insightfulhedgehog on Mar 18, 2015 22:03:51 GMT
Can't believe I didn't even check the DMG for info on creating new 5e races... will report back after some more tinkering.
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