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Post by goblingravy on Feb 5, 2016 13:13:00 GMT
So I just began a new campaign with my D&D group and it's going really well. We're only two sessions in but I think our group dynamic is at its best ever in the six years I've been a part of it, as a DM or a player.
The reason I'm posting in this section of the forum is that a close friend of mine wants to join up, and she's been somewhat problematic in past RPGs I've played with her. She simply approaches D&D in a very unconventional way: she avoids danger and conflict in-game at all costs, to the point where she did everything in her power to prevent the party from getting into combat and tried to solve everything with a diplomacy check. The reason I have an issue with this is that it makes a large portion of the other characters' stats and abilities irrelevant and clashes with the play styles of every other player I've encountered.
Anyway, she is in a bit of a rough place in her life and has expressed the need for a friend group, and it looks like my group is her best/only option. Without hesitation I told her she could join, but I had my concerns. Still, I think this is the ideal way to get her into D&D for a few reasons:
1. she's expressed a lot more willingness to cooperate with the flow of the game. She's not going to try to prevent all fights and is even willing to participate as a buffer/healer bard, though she refused to take damaging spells or carry weapons.
2. The campaign we're in is a lot less combat centric than other ones I've run. It has a lot more focus on intrigue and exploration than on "kill all the things" mentality. There are already meaningful ways the PCs have helped the group in noncombative ways.
Still, I have my concerns. First of all, she's extremely worried about her character's safety, which stems from overattachment to fictional characters (long story) and the fact that two PCs died in the first session (also a long story, but it's not as bad as it sounds). Yet it was still difficult to convince her to get armor for her character. This attitude does seem like it could have a negative effect on the game and makes me worry she still isn't accepting that D&D characters fight and thusly expose themselves to danger.
Anyway, I have a week or two to prepare before she's able to start coming, so my question is how you guys think I can accommodate her unique playstyle without taking away enjoyment from my other players or myself. Any ideas?
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Post by DMC on Feb 5, 2016 16:05:26 GMT
Paging @dmchris!
Listen to the hosts' new Story Time "Voyage on the Unending Sea". Chris is playing just such a character, that morally refuses to kill.
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Post by Vulash on Feb 5, 2016 17:33:28 GMT
It's always a tough spot when you have a really great group dynamic (which is more rare than common) and someone else wants to join that could shake that up. It sounds like you've committed and feel like adding her is important. Is it possible to tactfully let her know that she needs to meld more into the current dynamic than adding a contrary element? It sounds like maybe you've done that and she was receptive. I don't have a lot of good advice here, but I'll throw out what ideas I can think of it. I won't promise they'll be good ideas! You could occasionally throw in encounters designed to give her an important role. Perhaps the group needs to hold a choke point (a bridge or door) while someone is rescued. Perhaps someone needs to work on getting something opened, or working a puzzle, or some other obstacle while the group is attacked. I wouldn't overplay this though or it would feel too catered, but some here and there might help ease her into feeling important within the group, and that can often stem any issues before they develop. That's about all I have  |
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Post by catcharlie on Feb 6, 2016 0:48:17 GMT
*While I am not a DM I hope that I can still add some valid points to this* I think playing a healer/support character sounds like a good idea, has she been able incorporate that aspect of her play style into her character's background? I suspect that other players could be more forgiving of another PC's actions if it is woven into the PC's back story. It looks like you have already gone over a few points with her and/or she understands how she plays is different to how others play (as you said she was willing to cooperate with the flow of the game, and he's not going to try to prevent all fights), though it might been good to set out some ground rules, not just with her, but with the group as a whole (fun for everyone, different folks different strokes, etc). Also I suspect if everyone is on the same page about stuff like her possible aversion to danger, ahead of time, it might be easier to work around possible issues in the future. Also what's her character reason for traveling with the party? Paging @dmchris! Listen to the hosts' new Story Time "Voyage on the Unending Sea". Chris is playing just such a character, that morally refuses to kill. is ([@]admin) indeed, while this is a slight difference from his character ([PC] refuses to kill vs [player] avoiding danger/fights) I suspect the his experience playing that character might give him some extra insight. |
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Post by goblingravy on Feb 6, 2016 3:41:14 GMT
Thanks to all for the input. I definitely think I should use the week or two before she joins to prepare everyone and get us all in a mindset to work together for the sake of everyone's enjoyment. It can't hurt to over-clarify the ground rules I think will work best and it certainly would be bad not to make it clear, so I have nothing to lose. The hard part is finding a common ground that makes everyone happy and actually getting all the players to commit to it. I'm a little worried about knee-Jerk reactions from my other players but it should be manageable.
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Post by goblingravy on Feb 6, 2016 3:44:21 GMT
As for her reason to join the party, I need to work with her on that. She's established her character as someone from a mixed background in both culture and lifestyle. She traveled most of her life with a mentor that taught her the pacifistic way of living but that mentor has either died or moved on by the time the PC joins the party. I suppose she could be filling the gap in her life that her mentor left. Obviously it's her choice though, as long as she has a convincing reason to adventure.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2016 4:22:48 GMT
I support the above remarks, but want to add another perspective and possible solution. Mention how she always plays these pacifist characters, and it might be worth trying something new. This sort of reasoning won't work with the "I know what I like and I'm sticking with it" type, but it could be worth a shot.
Since she's afraid of character death, you might frame the conception and creation of this character as a throw-away to broaden her horizons. If she hates it, at least she can say she tried, and there's no penalty for bringing in a new character. But there's a chance she'll love it.
Is it possible she's putting a lot of her own persona into these characters? It would explain the attachment if she considers them a projection of herself, as well as the pacifist tendencies. Remind her that a PCs actions do not directly reflect on her as a person any more than a Hollywood actor's role on screen reflects the actor.
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Post by goblingravy on Feb 6, 2016 5:06:20 GMT
Nevvur- she's definitely putting her own ideals into her character. The thing is that she feels her beliefs very strongly and I don't think she'd be able to play a character at odds with her point of view and still have fun. I appreciate the suggestion though.
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Post by catcharlie on Feb 6, 2016 9:42:32 GMT
Regarding getting her out of her comfort zone, could you try and play a game where you are all characters from a Tv show /movie that everyone enjoys? This mifht work on getting her to RP a different character and if it is a one shot it might help to lessen the character attachment?
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Post by goblingravy on Feb 6, 2016 15:04:19 GMT
Catcharlie, I think if it looks like I need to take that route, your idea is headed in the right direction. I don't think we can spare time for a one-shot unrelated to the main campaign but I like how you're thinking.
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Post by ino on Feb 6, 2016 15:31:23 GMT
Ok. Finally able to comment on this! Lol. We had a game where a character was a full blown exalted pacifist, with vow of non violence and poverty. It can work, but EVERYONE needs to buy into the idea. Talk with everyone and see how u could make it work. There are plenty of role playing opportunities with a pacifist. Are the other players ok with not fighting? Why would each character not fight? How would each player support and counter the other characters? You could pigeon her in a healing role, certainly effective, but playing off why each character wants and doesn't want to fight can be fantastic. If her ideals are coming through that strong, then I'm sure she has a line where she will at least stand with the party. Go dark, but not graphic. Push everyone and play off their limitations. U can get a great campaign out of it if they're willing to work together.
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Post by ino on Feb 6, 2016 15:43:32 GMT
As an example, the player proposed that he wanted to play an exalted character with peace, poverty, and non-violence in 3.5. We all rallied around him as players. I made a terrifying half ogre with immense strength, and combat abilities. We weren't supposed to fight, but my character was a simple devout follower of kord who carry stone columns as an example of strength and build temples to kord. If someone threatened him, he would point to me and ask if they really wanted to fight. Usually, they were discouraged. And cuz he was exalted, he was able to convert evil hordefolk into my good followers, since I had strength based leadership.
My buddy played a rich LG elf elitist paladin of Correlon. He enjoyed punishing the wicked, and would often bribe my character to kill a truly evil person in exchange for a fully funded temple of kord.
The dynamics were fantastic, but total buy in is absolutely necessary. The players need to discuss how to make it work vs how it wouldn't work, and u need to balance non combat encounters with combative ones. If she runs, give her something else to do. Maybe a big golem is threatening a village. Not a living thing, so she need not worry about hurting others. And if an orphanage full of newborns happens to be in the way, she may decide to participate in the combat.
Pardon the rant. Drinking while staying awake for a flight. Lol.
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Post by Tesla Ranger on Feb 12, 2016 19:56:37 GMT
I think it's important to remember that if this is her style of play then it isn't wrong. It might pose challenges or inconveniences but I don't think it's necessarily something that needs to be treated as though it has to change. You may find that in accepting those challenges you can make the game better for everyone at the party. If she's transferring her personal beliefs onto the character then most of the work you might have to do to get a player invested in a PC is already done. I think it also means that the table (DM & other players) should remember that if they disrespect the PC's beliefs they may be disrespecting the player as well. I think it could be useful to sit down with the whole table and have a chat about how to integrate the PC w/o disrupting the party dynamic.
If I were DMing the table I would want to explore that element of pacifism. Why does the PC feel this way? What solutions would she create to maintain her principles? How does an inherently pacifist character survive in an inherently dangerous profession and what series of events brought her to that? Any of these questions could serve as a focus for a fantastic story. Rurouni Kenshin comes to mind as an absurdly excellent story with a similar focus. Florence Nightengale or Clara Barton might be good sources of inspiration for this sort of character.
As far as a DM can influence party dynamics I would want to limit conflict between players with different motivations. If one player wants to be a pacifist and the other four want to be murder-hobos there's a fair amount of middle ground there to work with. Do the "murder-hobos" actually need to kill their opponents? In 5e you can do nonlethal damage just by declaring thats what you're doing. Killing isn't required. Technically, players don't even need to get violent with opponents to earn xp. If they avoid a fight with a timely Fear spell, bluff/intimidate check, or just straightforward cleverness they should still get xp for it. I might use some mechanism of story to move them all into a similar position. Perhaps the party is cursed so that everytime they kill someone they experience the pain they inflicted or turn into a toad or lose a hit die. My ultimate goal would be to find ways for each player to play what they wanted without interfering with the other players; to avoid any situation where the players are opposed to one another. That can take some creativity and some compromise but I've always found it to be worth the effort.
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Post by catcharlie on Mar 17, 2016 20:03:34 GMT
goblingravy, how is the campaign going? curious as to how everything is working out.
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Post by goblingravy on Feb 21, 2017 21:03:19 GMT
Oh man, I just remembered this thread.
This campaign was amazing; the highlight of my 7 years playing D&D so far. It's funny, the player of the pacifist character and the player of my hyper violent vengeance paladin agreed by the end of the campaign that their characters had a lot in common. They both lost ties with someone close to them while they were young and when they met again things had changed a lot, they were both loners except around each other... There was a lot more that they had in common, but we finished this campaign around June or July, so I can't remember all the specifics.
Long story short though, she was a good sport and the campaign was excellent.
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