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Post by dm_mainprize on Feb 11, 2015 3:03:25 GMT
How do you go about upgrading armor and weapons? Not just by buying a new set but actually upgrading one you are currently wearing? Is there info on this in the core 5e books and I just missed it? What do other systems do? What ideas do you guys have for homebrewing item improvement?
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Post by DMC on Feb 11, 2015 17:27:02 GMT
Can you define "upgrading"? I know 5E doesn't have the Masterwork category like previous editions.
From everything I've read, the only way to change armor in 5E is to magically enhance it somehow and give it either a bonus to AC, or some other property (lighter, no Disadvantage to Stealth, etc.), and that would fall under creating magical items in the DMG Page #284.
Was that what you meant?
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Post by dm_mainprize on Feb 11, 2015 17:42:49 GMT
Ya thats kinda what I mean, it just seems odd that the only way to "upgrade" armor and gear would be by turning them magical. I was just curious if there was some system of taking them to a smithy to be improved. Like in Skyrim you can do various smithy activities to improve weapons and armor from Fine>Superior>Exquisite>Flawless>Epic>Legendary. Each granting higher levels of damage and protection. I was just curious if there was a system like that for D&D. Also thanks for the page # i will read up on that section and see if it has what i am looking for.
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Post by DM Chris on Feb 11, 2015 17:53:02 GMT
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Post by DMC on Feb 11, 2015 18:03:08 GMT
From what I have read on other forums they wanted to get away from the +1 enhancement stuff. Well not get away from it but make them much rarer than they were in other additions. You're exactly right. Magic isn't simply swinging by the corner QuickStop anymore and grabbing a +2 sword. Well, it can be, but the default setting is to make it a lot more rare and difficult to find. In 5E, I probably wouldn't be giving anyone a +1 armor/weapon until minimum 5-7th level. That was something I disliked about 3E, I have to say. By the time my guys were 10th level, they had Bags of Holding full of +1 and +2 swords that they never even used. I like that 5E is going back to more gritty realism style, where magic is of high value and rarity.
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Post by DM Chris on Feb 11, 2015 18:07:24 GMT
I like that 5E is going back to more gritty realism style, where magic is of high value and rarity. I personally do to. I like the fact that magic items should be viewed as powerful and rare. I think they should have cool names and have amazing stories behind them where as I feel like in 3.5, which I DM now, it's simply hey here is another +1 sword to buy.
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Post by DMC on Feb 11, 2015 18:10:25 GMT
Ya thats kinda what I mean, it just seems odd that the only way to "upgrade" armor and gear would be by turning them magical. I was just curious if there was some system of taking them to a smithy to be improved. Like in Skyrim you can do various smithy activities to improve weapons and armor from Fine>Superior>Exquisite>Flawless>Epic>Legendary. Each granting higher levels of damage and protection. I was just curious if there was a system like that for D&D. Also thanks for the page # i will read up on that section and see if it has what i am looking for. IIRC, a MW sword was a +1 to hit, but not damage, correct? I would homebrew MW arms and armor in 5E something like, a MW sword has a 19-20 crit range, but that's it. Give it a finer edge for better crit chance, but no +1 to hit. Leave that to magic alone. Maybe a harder steel property to make it more durable. I can't recall if 5E has any Sundering mechanics to attack and break a weapon. For ranged weapons, perhaps increase the distance of a MW bow. For 5E MW armor, maybe do something like it's got superb buckles and clasps that make it easier to don and doff, cutting that time in half (if you use that mechanic). Perhaps lighter material so there's no longer a STR requirement for the heavier armors. Due to the Bounded Accuracy of 5E, I would stay away from anything that confers a + to AC for sure. Like the weapons, leave that to magic only.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2015 18:20:13 GMT
I got curious and did a little scouring the net to see what people said about retempering metalwork like swords and armor. The short version was it's a bad idea -- good chance of ruining the piece in the process.
But this is a fantasy game, so w/e. There's nothing in the books that outlines upgrading items, but if it's something you really want to do, I would use the generic crafting rules as a reference point, where you make progress in 5 GP increments per day until you reach the market value, spending half that amount in materials per day. You could reduce the time and cost of materials by the market value of the original object. So let's say (arbitrarily) a masterwork longsword goes for 100 GP. Reduce that by 15 for the original longsword. It'll take 17 days and 42.5 GP to make.
I wouldn't allow upgrading items like this to increase your attack bonus or armor class, as you run the risk of breaking the theory of bounded accuracy. However, a masterwork weapon might cause additional damage (longsword = 1d8+1), and masterwork armor could have damage reduction against weapon attacks, like the Heavy Armor Master feat (1-3 points, depending on light/medium/heavy armor IMO)
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Post by swordnut on Mar 26, 2016 11:30:48 GMT
Outside of magic,
Improving armour might be done by: Plate: adding strips along the broader plates to stop weapon tips sliding and finding the gaps in the arms, neck etc. +1AC Plate or chain: Getting better under-garments like a padded jack or arming jacket that helps suspend the armour more effectively. allow half dex bonus for heavy armour, maybe less stealth dissadvantage (just a -2?) Chain: attach metal or boiled leather plates +1AC Leather or cloth: Glue or stitch stiffened leather plates at various points or incorporating chain sewn on/inside boulder able points. +1AC
Edged weapons: Adding or removing weight from the pommel/butt end +1 to hit Re-hilting a sword to improve handling. +1or2 to hit (this can have a huge effect Changing the blade profile to give a better edge or one that is easier to maintain +1 damage
Impact weapons: Adding a counter weight at the grip to improve handling +1 to hit Grinding away the head or fitting a new one so that the point of contact is smaller and this concentrates force better +1 damage Adding a spike to the back of a hammer, spear points to the top and bottom, hidden dagger in the haft for more options +1 to hit Lengthening the haft. +1 damage or +1AC when used defensively. Allow 2 handed wielding with upgrade to damage die Adding a disk guard for the hand, one above, one below. Helps protect and wedge your hand in for better control +1 to hit
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Post by ino on Mar 26, 2016 19:34:43 GMT
I like to think that certain weapons are modular. Upgrading the shaft of a spear or axe from regular wood to iron wood, changing out the cross guard of a sword, better flights for arrows and new types of strings for bows. They're cheaper and easier to find than magic weapons, but u have to find good smiths to do it. I also like to use other references, like all the weapon and armor options from 3.5, and find unique ways to add it on after creation. I don't always think of it as upgrading numerically to get better bonuses, but more like customizing the items for the character.
As far as magic goes, few casters would give up life force and experience for a character unless it was absolutely necessary. To prevent magical weapon hoarding, most magic items are fairly "low powered" in my world. There are creatures and people that can pull magic from one weapon to strengthen another, but it's costly and the being doing it would be quite powerful (like an outsider or other immortal with innate magic abilities). As a dm, it's a great way to make plot points or hooks, and make your big bad players feel small in the face of something terrifying.
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Post by Tesla Ranger on Mar 27, 2016 17:06:54 GMT
So far as RAW goes, there's no way to upgrade or modify equipment once it's been built, magically or otherwise. Equipment is meant to be replaced rather than modified. The sole exception (IIRC) is Alchemical Silver which can be added to a completed weapon post production.
I seem to recall that the DMG suggests PCs shouldn't have more than 3-4 magic items at any one time (in addition to MIs always having a background) so there's that too.
Masterwork in 3.5 gave weapons a +1 to attack (but not to damage) and reduced armor's ACP by 1 but there's no equivalent in 5e RAW. Enhancements only go up to +3 and are generally spaced out every 5 levels (+1s for level 5, +2s for level 10, etc). They removed the vast majority of enchantments for weapons/armor leaving only 2-3 in the DMG.
Magic items don't require xp to craft anymore, but they do require a considerable amount of gold and downtime. It's cheaper to build a magic item than purchase it, but if you don't have months to devote to working on it then the PCs may need to purchase it.
I tend to find all of these changes a bit more realistic and they have the net effect of reducing the inventory management for PCs. That said, there's absolutely nothing to stop any DM from homebrewing mechanics as they like. I've added a number of Special Materials to my campaign to make up for some of the scarcity of magic. PCs might have a hard time finding a +1 longsword but here's a scimitar made of "Elanan Steel" that does +1 damage.
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Post by Vulash on Mar 28, 2016 13:25:27 GMT
As far as non-magical: I'd be hesitant to add much in the way of actual stats. I would consider the old masterwork rule (+1 to hit) only because it would cost them an extra 300 GP, and by the time they could afford it the +1 wouldn't be groundbreaking. Even then I don't present it as an option. EDIT: I didn't include my reason. +1 in 5e is worth a lot more than 3 e, hence the hesitation.
As far as magic item creation: I'm kind of glad they did away with this. People were gaming it, and it took the magic (pun intended) out of magic items. So for 5e I just make it up.
I have a character that wants to make a specially designed weapon for his monk, and I'm allowing it. They had previously interacted positively with a Dwarven weaponsmith and he asked this NPC about building this item. I told him I'd get back to him. Later, I decided (since it's a homebrew world) to allow Dwarves to create magic items without having to have all that 3e junk and spells (sort of like Bruenor). So this weaponsmith's son, who had been an apprentice with him, drew up the designs and made a list of materials - he would build this weapon for the character as part of his right of passage to become a full fledged weaponsmith himself, and "graduate" from being an apprentice. I haven't decided if this is a Dwarven custom, or just a family tradition, in my world.
Now the PC is trying to hunt down the materials, gems, and the gold to pass off to this young enterprising dwarf. You couldn't do that in 3e days without breaking the rules.
I haven't had a PC yet want to do crafting, but if they ever do I'd make that up too - I wouldn't make it easy though. There are probably some good homebrew mechanics on the net.
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Post by dmsam on Mar 28, 2016 14:57:46 GMT
I don't upgrade weapons, and rarely do so for armor.
When I want a defining weapon for a character, I simply give it regardless of levels. Glamdring, Orcrist and Sting were all +3 weapons that never needed any upgrades. So was the One Ring.
At the end of the day, I would rather spend a few extra minutes to scale up the difficulty of the encounters to compensate, so that nothing is "too easy".
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Post by Vulash on Mar 28, 2016 15:41:39 GMT
I don't upgrade weapons, and rarely do so for armor. When I want a defining weapon for a character, I simply give it regardless of levels. Glamdring, Orcrist and Sting were all +3 weapons that never needed any upgrades. So was the One Ring. At the end of the day, I would rather spend a few extra minutes to scale up the difficulty of the encounters to compensate, so that nothing is "too easy". This is typically how I do it as well. I prefer a defining item or two supplemented by consumable (and tactical) items to the plethora of +1 and +2. I don't mind the upgrade though. I've always enjoyed the concept of a scaling item that gets more powerful as you do. Or perhaps the family heirloom that you go on a quest and hunt down a master smith and wizard to add a new enchantment. I do spread out when my players get things so it's not so obvious I'm handing them an item. I also throw in some items they can't really use. (I Don't overload on items, this is over the course of a long game).
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DM Foster
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Posts: 6
Favorite D&D Class: Druid
Favorite D&D Race: Dwarf
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Post by DM Foster on Mar 29, 2016 0:40:32 GMT
if you dont have magical weapons or if they are super rare, for some Creatures that you would fight you would always do half damage. one that you can do like the PHB says Put silver on it. but like in my Favorite book, " The Iron Druid Chronicles" , There is a staff in there that is made of wood but in lade with Silver and iron on the end so when you hit with it you contact all creatures with silver, Iron, and wood. You would kill the fae, werewolves, and minads. just something to think about.
As for Armor. like in Drizzt books. you could put spikes on your armor, you could grapple people and be able to do damage while you shake around. might help disarm people that roll like a 1 or 2, because of the different spikes grabbing the weapon. the armor could give you a bonus to AC against ranged weapons I.E the spikes more likely deflecting that arrow and alike. Instead of always giving a + to AC straight up.
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