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Post by guitardavepdx on May 20, 2016 22:06:49 GMT
I have never been a fan of using minis and mats, but occasionally I have used maps of cities and various other things. How useful have others found and how much value does it add to the game?
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Post by joatmoniac on May 21, 2016 15:28:01 GMT
It is fairly dependent on your group. For me it is a must given the old school/war game players I have and because I am running them through a super dungeon. So I have a specific map for whenever they are in the dungeon, and have specific paper minis for all the monsters. If your group isn't used to one way or the other then it would likely be a transitional period before they would feel comfortable with the new format. If they haven't used the map/mini method before they might feel constricted by the grid and it's limitations. The opposite side with someone losing the map/minis might feel disoriented or lost because they don't know where they are in relation to other people. All that to say that both certainly work, and hang some sort of visual representation can help guide players at times, but doing what your group wants is always best. Also, no map/minis helps the wallet out too, haha.
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Post by halfacreoffun on May 21, 2016 17:27:58 GMT
I love the idea of the theater of the mind when in comes to navigation and first entering a new area. That being said combat in my opinion is so much better with a grid and minis. If you don't have a grid and minis on a board for combat your players have to constantly ask hey who can I hit with this fireball. Who would be in this cone of cold. Can I run to this guy and heal him or are there 6 attacks of opportunity I'm going to take(because the DM's an ass). In doing this it keeps the DM honest and allows the players to plan their next move with out slamming the DM with a bunch of questions slowing down combat.
That being said I will always have a small map for a dungeon to track progress and a to scale map for the planned battles. Random encounters can be quick sketched if there's a need. Just don't rely on the map to tell your story.
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Samuel Wise
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Post by Samuel Wise on May 21, 2016 17:38:49 GMT
I have done purely theatre of the mind... until the game I am running now. This will be the first game with a mat... and I am not entirely sure how it will go. I will certainly miss theatre of the mind.
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Post by halfacreoffun on May 21, 2016 18:58:57 GMT
I have done purely theatre of the mind... until the game I am running now. This will be the first game with a mat... and I am not entirely sure how it will go. I will certainly miss theatre of the mind. I find it funny that people still think it has to be 1 or the other. Why not use all the tools in the tool chest. Sometime you need a hammer sometimes a wrench. |
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Samuel Wise
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Favorite D&D Class: Warlock
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Post by Samuel Wise on May 21, 2016 20:10:08 GMT
I have done purely theatre of the mind... until the game I am running now. This will be the first game with a mat... and I am not entirely sure how it will go. I will certainly miss theatre of the mind. I find it funny that people still think it has to be 1 or the other. Why not use all the tools in the tool chest. Sometime you need a hammer sometimes a wrench. Too true, but when you have never handled a hammer before, it can look really daunting...  |
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kaulguard
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Post by kaulguard on May 26, 2016 0:41:10 GMT
We usually use a mat and minis. Previously, I have run games in which we didn't have that luxury, and we used purely theatre of the mind. Last session, we had an arial battle that wasn't very conducive to minis, but the cinematic nature of it seemed to take hold, and I think the players really enjoyed doing it TOM. My 2c
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Post by dmdeejay on May 26, 2016 4:31:08 GMT
I myself am very new and am DMing two groups, both playing as a Theater of the Mind. Some of my players are very critical and want to know every detail in the room to influence what they can do. What I have done is we still play without Maps or Minis but I bring my iPhone/iPad (any tablet will suffice) and use a painting application to provide a visual aide when needed. What I will do is upload an HD version of the map where we are and then add another layer to the image, painted all black. Then, as they move through the dungeon, I erase black as they go. This is the closest I have come to a Fog of War mentality and it has been working really well. When they need it for reference, they got it. But mostly, we play without it.
I have also been a player with maps and minis before and found them to be too distracting, personally. You begin to focus on strategy and not story, but hey, that works for a lot of folks.
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Post by friartook on May 27, 2016 14:47:26 GMT
I have never been a fan of using minis and mats, but occasionally I have used maps of cities and various other things. How useful have others found and how much value does it add to the game? Using a grid and minis changes the game. Much of the focus in combat shift to the mat and the minis; the game becomes more tactical in nature. I have a strong preference for TotM, but I won't claim either method is inherently better. Grid and minis adds a board game ethic to the game. Movement becomes counting squares. Flanking is clear-cut and visually represented. AoE spells and effects have a set range and blast radius. In short, a grid and minis locks in the mechanics. I prefer to play things fast and loose. I make my players describe their actions in detail, cinematically. When we get into a nit picky question of relative position, we just talk it out and I make a call based on previous actions and statements. I prefer TotM because it keeps everyone focused on each other, rather than the grid and minis. If you are a very mechanics/rules oriented player or DM, this style can be frustrating. I'm of the "fly by the seat of my pants" school of gaming. |
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2016 17:45:53 GMT
I have a strong preference for grid play, but will occasionally use TotM for simple fights. The determining factors are usually environment and number/type of opponents. If the terrain plays an important role in the fight, if there's more than 3 enemies, and if there's more than one kind of enemy, I will definitely use a grid. This combination of factors accounts for over 90% of my combat encounters.
However, it's not really worth busting out the minis and maps when you're taking out a couple goblin sentries, or chipping away at an iron golem.
Sometimes a hybrid of grid and totm can be effective, too. For instance, in a mounted chase scene I used the grid to show relative positions. Squares weren't literal distances, but representative of the order of scene participants speeding down a twisty wooded road. Multiple people could share a position, enabling melee attacks, boarding wagons, etc... Being two or more positions behind any given position disabled line of sight between the two positions, on account of the twisty road.
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Post by donosaur on May 30, 2016 16:18:31 GMT
We do most of our battle theater-of-the-mind and use maps more for exploration purposes. As for running TotM combat, I noticed that there are 3 ranges for almost anything: 5' melee range, 30' spell or movement range, and 60' ranged weapon or spell range. My party has yet to notice that every single room I describe is either 10, 30 or 60 feet in all dimensions...
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Post by Tesla Ranger on Jun 4, 2016 14:56:20 GMT
I've tried both approaches numerous times at our table and we tend to wind up using Maps and Minis. I have observed how that changes gameplay (making it more tactical/combat-oriented) and I think that's what some of our players enjoy more about the style. When we use the ol' Theater of the Mind, a couple of our players tend to have a hard time following along or figuring out what they'd like to do next. They start imagining all the things they -could- do and have a hard time figuring out what they -should- do.
As a general rule anytime there's combat or tricky puzzles we use props like maps and minis. If the party's just traveling along, carousing, or roleplaying we switch to TotM (if only because we don't care to manage -that- many maps). It might not be an approach that works for everyone, but it works pretty well for us.
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Post by joatmoniac on Jun 4, 2016 18:50:59 GMT
Here is an interesting article that could be an explanation as to why some people don't like, and potentially can't, do theater of the mind well. Thought it would be an interesting piece of info to add here. I've had my mind blown a lot this year for a number of reasons. This, though. This article helps explain a number of interpersonal dynamics I've had over the years. It's both relieving and, honestly, unsettling. I know I'm already on the far end of the "holodeck in my mind" spectrum. I don't just remember experiences, I relive them in vivid detail: visually, verbally, audibly, emotionally. Which is great when they are wonderful memories. Horrifying when they aren't - like the day I learned my best friend had died; a moment I've relived quite painfully hundreds of times. And I've often had to stop walking or talking as a memory sneaks up on me and takes up my active hard drive space for a few seconds. To learn that some people don't picture things in their mind at all makes my head spin. Especially intriguing is that this guy is a writer! His description of how he "does imagining" is spinning my mind like a top. m.facebook.com/notes/blake-ross/aphantasia-how-it-feels-to-be-blind-in-your-mind/10156834777480504/ |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2016 22:00:53 GMT
Interesting find. I wonder if aphantasia exists on a spectrum rather than a binary, though. For all my senses except audio, I'm pretty similar to the author of that article. That is, I am what he would call aphantasiac. However, sounds are very easy for me to recreate in my head.
I agree that this phenomenon could explain some people's preference for minis/mats vs TotM. It certainly seems to be the case for me, anyway, but a sample size of a couple people isn't enough to draw any conclusions. Hopefully others will chime in.
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Post by joatmoniac on Jun 5, 2016 1:36:48 GMT
I would wager anecdotally that it is on a spectrum as I personally have a difficult time "seeing" things on the fly without a concerted effort. If it is something I have created then it is easier for me (i.e. a home brew monster or setting) but as a player it just takes more conscious effort to being the image fully into my mind. I tried this a ton after reading the article, and also want to try my hand at seeing how much I can visualize while maps and minis are involved or of it fully impedes my ability to see things in my head.
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